Everything Happens For A Reason....Really?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Matt22:37-39, Apr 22, 2013.

  1. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    EVERYTHING HAPPENS FOR A REASON: This has been one of those cliche Christians often throw around without truly understanding its meaning. Although this phrase cannot be found in the bible, there is some truth to it, if used in the right context. Romans 8:28 is often used to back up this man made statement. It wasn’t until a few years ago that God revealed to me what this quote and Romans 8:28 really means, as it needs to be lined up with God’s word and cannot contradict it.One also must look at God's CHARACTER as well. I have found that the way many Christians use this verse contradicts a foundational truth, which will be explained in a bit. Plus it must be read in CONTEXT of the whole chapter.

    Instead of throwing cliches at hurting people we need to present the truth of what Romans 8:28 really means. And that would be to HELP others draw closer to God and LOVE Him.

    The paradox is found in trying to combine God’s SOVEREIGNTY with Man’s FREE WILL. To say that “Every Thing Happens For A Reason” and that “God Works ALL Things Out For Good”…leaves out man’s free will, a fallen world and evil forces. Yes things happen due to natural cause and effect. Does that mean it is God ordained?....not in the sense that He controlled every situation, or caused you to do something or say something. He wouldn’t have you do or say something against His character. You made that choice now you have to live with it. He can however make a way out if you turn to Him. We also cannot keep OTHERS from doing what they are doing to us, or what might affect us. God could if He wanted to (but that would go against His nature) direct and control everything, including what one does or says. He could even do away with Satan (and He will someday) and keep Satan from attacking His children. But God has chosen not to do this because who wants someone who ONLY loves you because you made them....not real love then is it? God is a jealous God and wants OUR LOVE and devotion.

    What God has revealed to me over the years in my head and heart is this one truth. God gave us the Holy Spirit in us to HELP us do the ONE thing an unbeliever isn’t able to, and that is allow God to do His work for good, thus FULFILL Romans 8:28. He also cannot fulfill this with a disobedient Christian who is going their own way. See here is the key to it all and if followed does fulfills Romans 8:28 and God’s number one desire for His children...

    GOD’S SOVEREIGNTY...Is just as powerful a fact as man’s free will. Obviously like I said God and can DO anything He wants. But He chose to set creation up in a way that glorifies Him. We were put here to Glorify God. I’m going to explain how I see the two fit together and you see if it makes any sense?

    God has a part and I have a part. These two parts must fit together to make a functioning whole. Now if man’s free will is pulling in one direction and God is trying to draw him towards Himself...are all things working for mans good?...obviously not. I have been saying what I am about to say for many years, my response is often a puzzled look on many a Christians face...THE ONLY THING I AM CALLED TO DO AND IS WHAT GOT ME IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD IN THE FIRST place IS TO YIELD/SUBMIT to His call to His will...God’s job or part is to do the WORK in me. 1 Cor 3 is a great example of this. Jesus is the FOUNDATION and it is the work that God has done IN you and not the work of your flesh that is going to count, it will be burned up. Our works will not be judged, it says, our FAITHFULNESS will be. As we yield to God work and He works through us.

    So how does this all fit in with Romans 8:28...simple, most don’t take into consideration what “TO THOSE WHO LOVE GOD”, means. Romans 8:28 only applies to those who LOVE Him, who are submitted and yielded to His will. This is done through prayer and reading of His word and obedience of course. Kind of like a child who submits to his parents authority, now I can work with that child in guiding him to do what is BEST FOR HIM. As one TRUSTS and is yielded to God’s sovereignty, God does His work IN them (He is the potter I am the clay) and through them. He makes it so ones OUTLOOK and DESIRES are right in lines with His...how much better can you get? That is the GOOD that Paul is talking about in Romans 8:28...it doesn’t change your circumstances, but it does change your focus which is an ETERNAL FOCUS...no longer one that is on self or this worldly goods or even tragedies that happen to us. The other is true too, if you do NOT yield and trust God He CANNOT and WILL NOT do His part and work with you and help you...He may intervene as a way to help or nudge you and get your attention back to Him....but only true MIRACLES and true PEACE/GOOD can happen as one is solely focused on Him!...do I want just a part of God’s blessings or ALL?

    Think of Moses and the Israelites, because of their disobedience they wondered in the desert for 40 years never reaching the PROMISE LAND...not exactly "GOOD" or God's will
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    always have remembere what Charles stanley said regarding the Will of God for a believer...

    WE are interested in making sure what haoppems will be for our ease/comfort/pleasure, but God allows all things in order to moreconform us into image of Christ!

    We focus on the immediate/temporal. God the eternal!
     
  3. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    God allows things to happen cause He can't go against His nature and mans free will....He can ONLY form us into His image as we yield and submit to His leading. To say what you just is true then more people would be like Jesus and sad to say they are NOT!

    Did you actually read the op?
     
  4. Don

    Don
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    Actually, Yeshua supported your post quite well. Yeshua said that, left to our own free will, we would only do those things we felt were best for us; which means, just as you said, that we must yield ourselves to Him so that He can make us more Christ-like.

    Now, my question for you, that I may better understand: your comment above says God cannot go against man's free will. Did God go against Pharoah's free will when He hardened Pharoah's heart?
     
  5. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    Thanks Don for pointing that out...I didn't see that.

    Good point about God hardening Pharaoh's heart...Like I said God cannot go against mans free will....I would have to say that "God's hardening" of pharaohs heart is also a NATURAL consequence of closing ones self off from God's will....which would fit under "cause and effect"...Pharaoh sinned against the Holy Spirit thus hardened his own heart

    Plus my op is for BELIEVERS not the unsaved like Pharaoh
     
  6. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    consider this

     
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    Matt22:37-39

    3 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven

    17 I said in mine heart, God shall judge the righteous and the wicked: for there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.


    .
    Romans 8:28 is explained by romans 8:29-39 It is a promise to God's elect sheep only.

    Or...you are going to give your ideas on this apart from the context.

    No one does that...they understand the passage as it is meant to be understood.

    There is no free will.....so this is a rabbit trail.



    The biblical teaching understands it all.


    Everything that comes to pass is ordained of God:
    1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
    ( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )

    2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
    ( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )


    ....
    24 This is the interpretation, O king, and this is the decree of the most High, which is come upon my lord the king:

    25 That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.

    .

    Men do make choices but they are bound by their nature.Jesus must set them free.

    This is your philosophy...but no where in scripture.

    God is not jealous as humans are...you are using this term wrongly in speaking this way of God. God is jealous in His care of His people and His own Glory.

    Can you show what you mean with any verse of scripture,This is nebulous.

    This is not at all biblical.


    It has no so far.:thumbsup:
    .

    That is synergism.
    This is a false premise so a false conclusion.
    ;) yes ..I can see that.:thumbs:

    ...THE ONLY THING I AM CALLED TO DO AND IS WHAT GOT ME IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD IN THE FIRST place IS TO YIELD/SUBMIT to His call to His will...God’s job or part is to do the WORK in me. 1 Cor 3 is a great example of this. Jesus is the FOUNDATION and it is the work that God has done IN you and not the work of your flesh that is going to count, it will be burned up. Our works will not be judged, it says, our FAITHFULNESS will be. As we yield to God work and He works through us.

    You should keep studying and looking for the solution which has eluded you so far:wavey:
     
  8. salzer mtn

    salzer mtn
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    Consider this, Exodus 4:21 And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all these wonders before Pharaoh, which i have put in thy hand: BUT I WILL HARDEN HIS HEART, that he shall not let the people go.

    Consider This, Rom 9:17-18 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have i raised thee up, that i might show my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
     
  9. Don

    Don
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    According to what you found in GotQuestions, Pharoah only hardened his own heart the first couple of times; as scripture explicitly says, God hardened Pharoah's heart the final time.

    BUT--as further explained by that website, it was a hardening that was in line with Pharoah's already-evidenced hardness.

    NOW -- as for your statement that God cannot go against man's will, I'll leave that to the Calvinists on the board to discuss.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    well, God sure seemed to be able to get the Kings/world leaders in the OT times to go where they did not really want to go, to attack the people of God under old covenant, and God moved upon Augustus to do a census!

    paul seems another whose personal will got "overcame" by god, and he was forever thankful for that!
     
  11. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    How would that be against his nature?? Why?


    So then free will is necessary for true love? Is that your point here? And by "free will" do you mean the ability to do either of two options- the presence of the ability to choose to do one thing as well as the ability to choose the other?

    Is that what you mean?

    "allow God"???

    Is that not a strange sounding statement to you?

    Is there anything in Romans 8:28 that says God will work these things out if we ALLOW HIM to?

    God cannot? He is not able?? A disobedient Christian staves off omnipotence and omniscience? That is some powerful stuff that can do this!

    To me that sounds strange- to compare the power of man's will to the power of Almighty God.

    If you don't do your part has God failed in one of his objectives?

    So God is not the Potter unless you LET him be??

    You make it so that YOUR desires and outlook are right in line with his and then God responds by making your outlook and desires in line with his??

    Do you see how this does not make sense?

    So you stop being self-centered and God can then make you not self-centered and that is the good God does in Romans 8:28??

    It does not make sense to me.
     
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    So does that mean that the lord is waiting upon sinners to hopefully make for them the "right free will choice" and get saved by jesus?
     
  13. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Right.

    And once again we have this idea of "salvation by grace through CHOICE" instead of "salvation by grace through FAITH..."

    Arminians cannot see faith for what it is- something that you do because some things have happened to you totally apart from your choice. You do not CHOOSE to believe. You believe things because you cannot HELP but believe them. Like gravity. You do not choose to believe in gravity. Gravity has persuaded you that it exists. You have no CHOICE but to believe in it.


    Arminians replace faith by choice and whenever you see an Arminian speak of man's faith, he ACTUALLY means man's CHOICE.

    But we are NOT saved by grace through choice. We are saved by grace through faith which is totally different from choice.
     
    #13 Luke2427, Apr 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2013
  14. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    For one I will not respond to posts that chop everything up as I don't have to do the same and answer each question, many of which i already covered in the first place and already agreed with.

    If one actually read what I wrote and took it all into consideration you might have a better understanding of what I was saying. The key word in Romans 8:28 is LOVE...the bible says that god's LOVE COMPELS US...to do what? focus on Him and others...hence my screen name...the other word is GOOD...like I said it may not be a physical good that ones receives, and as long as believers are so focused on their circumstances, how can they SEE the good that God can do...get it? Therefore ti isn't good is it?

    Let's take the word LOVE...another verse often misquoted is "For The Love Of Money Is The Root Of All Evil"...most read that to say.."money is the root of all evil, therefore it is wrong to have it"...no it says, the LOVE of it...dealing not with an OUTWARD attribute but an INNER one.

    God isn't so worried about the OUTWARD and material things as he is our heart...and only the ONE WHO LOVES HIM, will truly see the GOOD that Paul is talking about. Romans 8:28

    l:)
     
  15. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    Question: "How does God's sovereignty work together with free will?"

    Answer: It is impossible for us to fully understand the dynamics of a holy God molding and shaping the will of man. Scripture is clear that God knows the future (Matthew 6:8; Psalm 139:1-4) and has total sovereign control over all things (Colossians 1:16-17; Daniel 4:35). The Bible also says that we must choose God or be eternally separated from Him. We are held responsible for our actions (Romans 3:19; 6:23; 9:19-21). How these facts work together is impossible for a finite mind to comprehend (Romans 11:33-36).

    People can take one of two extremes in regard to this question. Some emphasize the sovereignty of God to the point that human beings are little more than robots simply doing what they have been sovereignly programmed to do. Others emphasize free will to the point of God not having complete control and/or knowledge of all things. Neither of these positions is biblical. The truth is that God does not violate our wills by choosing us and redeeming us. Rather, He changes our hearts so that our wills choose Him. “We love Him because He first loved us” (1 John 4:19), and “You did not choose me, but I chose you” (John 15:16).

    What are we to do then? First, we are to trust in the Lord, knowing that He is in control (Proverbs 3:5-6). God’s sovereignty is supposed to be a comfort to us, not an issue to be concerned about or debate over. Second, we are to live our lives making wise decisions in accordance with God’s Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17; James 1:5). There will be no excuses before God for why we chose to disobey Him. We will have no one to blame but ourselves for our sin. Last but not least, we are to worship the Lord, praising Him that He is so wonderful, infinite, powerful, full of grace and mercy—and sovereign.

    Recommended Resources: Logos Bible Software and Chosen But Free, revised edition: A Balanced View of God's Sovereignty and Free Will by Norm Geisler and The Potter's Freedom by James White.

    www.gotquestions.org
     
  16. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Then you don't want to discuss it. You just want to preach to us and have us accept it without engaging you.

    I have shown you where your opening post is filled with questionable points.

    If you do not wish to respond to my points, I assume it is because you cannot.
     
  17. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    What opening post?...I will respond better if it looks like this

    1)...question

    2)..... question

    not my quotes then your quotes to hard to read and understand and respond to....don't have time...and many of the things you said I had ALREADY said so you act like you are disagreeing with me when in fact you agree...very confusing that is to respond to.
     
  18. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    What I am about to say is very helping in knowing God's will and separating the TRUTH from the LIE....maybe the op will make more sense to some after reading this.

    I preach this as well...God has revealed to me that in a way we CAN KNOW how to apply the OP in each situation...I was able to share a TRUTH with 3 people this week. When looking at any given situation, we need to consider 5 possibilities as to why "THIS HAPPENED"...it could be a couple of factors or all of them....usually never just one.

    1) OUR SIN NATURE...2) OTHERS SIN NATURE...3) GOD'S WILL...SATAN & HIS MINIONS...5) A FALLEN WORLD. Let me give you an example:...I asked a man to give me an example of something so horrible why would God allow it?...he mentioned his "good" father dying of cancer and dying at a relatively young age of 63. I let him tell his whole story and when he was done I could tell he was angry at God....So I pointed out how all 5 examples played into his fathers death...some more than others. So I found out the hard way that when anything happens especially to the believer...we have the opportunity to factor into all 5 FORCES to see what is REALLY going on....too often we blame ourselves for things that really had nothing to do with us, too often we blame others when we should be blaming ourselves, sometimes we give Satan to much credit or not enough, and we often times give God all the blame...and basically we just live in a fallen world, "stuff happens"...thing is I know this world is NOT MY HOME...AMEN!

    It is all about separating the TRUTHS from the LIES!
     
    #18 Matt22:37-39, Apr 22, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2013
  19. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    You said God would not control everything because that would be against his nature.

    I asked HOW God controlling everything is against his nature.

    You said, "But God has chosen not to do this because who wants someone who ONLY loves you because you made them....not real love then is it?"

    And I responded by asking if you were under the impression that "free will", the ability to choose one as well as the other, was essential to "true love."

    You said, "He also cannot fulfill this with a disobedient Christian who is going their own way. See here is the key to it all and if followed does fulfills Romans 8:28 and God’s number one desire for His children... "

    I said that that was ABSURD! God CANNOT! God CANNOT! Because WE prevent it?!?!?
     
  20. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39
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    Just so I'm clear...When I say God cannot go against His nature and mans free will...what I mean is God will not cause a BELIEVER TO HURT another believer, that right there would go against His will and nature. That right there is from Satan and others sin nature... God cannot lie, God cannot sin there are things God is restricted by His own nature...and everything He does even His justice and righteousness is always done out of LOVE...that is why I hate when other "Christians" do thing to others NOT out of love, but other motives...that is how you know if something is of God or not.

    I preach this as well...God has revealed to me that in a way we CAN KNOW how to apply the OP in each situation, we can know what is going on...I was able to share a TRUTH with 3 people this week. When looking at any given situation, we need to consider 5 possibilities as to why "THIS HAPPENED"...it could be a couple of factors or all of them....usually never just one.

    1) OUR SIN NATURE...2) OTHERS SIN NATURE...3) GOD'S WILL...SATAN & HIS MINIONS...5) A FALLEN WORLD. Let me give you an example:...I asked a man to give me an example of something so horrible why would God allow it?...he mentioned his "good" father dying of cancer and dying at a relatively young age of 63. I let him tell his whole story and when he was done I could tell he was angry at God....So I pointed out how at least 3 maybe 4 of the examples played into his fathers death...some more than others. So I found out the hard way that when anything happens especially to the believer...we have the opportunity to factor into all 5 FORCES to see what is REALLY going on....too often we blame ourselves for things that really had nothing to do with us, too often we blame others when we should be blaming ourselves, sometimes we give Satan to much credit or not enough, and we often times give God all the blame...and basically we just live in a fallen world, "stuff happens"...thing is I know this world is NOT MY HOME...AMEN!

    It is all about separating the TRUTHS from the LIES!
     

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