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Featured Everything Happens For A Reason....Really?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Matt22:37-39, Apr 22, 2013.

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  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    You have an interesting theology. In one thread [about homosexuals] you stated, "...once a lesbian or gay gets saved they AUTOMATICALLY SHOULD NOW BE ATTRACTED TO THE OPPOSITE SEX....for many that isn't ever going to happen even if Jesus came back and laid hands on them Himself...it just isn't WHO THEY ARE....they are a homosexual..." and now you just casually toss out Romans 8:28 (DSV) "We know that in everything God works for good with those who love him, who are called according to his purpose." like it was never there, or that it means little when it comes to understanding why something happened as it happened in our life!

    One question to you Matt27. Do you have a good, low deductible insurance policy in effect on you and all your possessions? I ask this, because I'd be careful about lightening striking your home on a clear-blue sky day, or the earth opening up and swallowing everything around you! :smilewinkgrin: :laugh: :wavey:

    Now, to your statement, it isn't have bad. It shows thought and practical experience on your behalf, and I would compliment you for working out Scripture and its application to you and your personal view of what happens in your life and why it happens as it does.

    I'd only caution you to not forget, that the NEAT thing about the Scripture is, that most of the time, it can have multiple meanings [which is the way I believe God meant it to be]. In other words, the entire text or a verse here and one there, can be many things to believers at different times throughout their process of Sanctification. I have found that the Scripture seems to grow with me. For instance, a verse may not be all that pwoerful to me at one time in my life, and at another time, it knocks me off my feet, to my knees, and leaves me in awe and filled with remorse, praise, or a blessing I never expereinced from it years earlier.

    I have discovered that there are a ton of verses in His Word that can mean something for one thing and something else for another day and time. This is the miracle of the "Living Word!" Living word means it is living, changing, growing [with us]!
     
    #21 righteousdude2, Apr 23, 2013
  2. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    You misquoted me on the gay thing...I didn't say that please post the whole thing cause that isn't right

    consider this

    Just so I'm clear...When I say God cannot go against His nature and mans free will...what I mean is God will not cause a BELIEVER TO HURT another believer, that right there would go against His will and nature. That right there is from Satan and others sin nature... God cannot lie, God cannot sin there are things God is restricted by His own nature...and everything He does even His justice and righteousness is always done out of LOVE...that is why I hate when other "Christians" do thing to others NOT out of love, but their own selfish motives...that is how you know if something is of God or not.

    What I am about to say is very helpful in knowing God's will and separating the TRUTH from the LIE....maybe the op will make more sense to some after reading this.

    I preach this as well...God has revealed to me that in a way we CAN KNOW how to apply the OP in each situation...I was able to share a TRUTH with 3 people this week. When looking at any given situation, we need to consider 5 possibilities as to why "THIS HAPPENED"...it could be a couple of factors or all of them....usually never just one.

    1) OUR SIN NATURE...2) OTHERS SIN NATURE...3) GOD'S WILL...SATAN & HIS MINIONS...5) A FALLEN WORLD. Let me give you an example:...I asked a man to give me an example of something so horrible why would God allow it?...he mentioned his "good" father dying of cancer and dying at a relatively young age of 63. I let him tell his whole story and when he was done I could tell he was angry at God....So I pointed out how at least 3 of the examples played into his fathers death...some more than others. So I found out the hard way that when anything happens especially to the believer...we have the opportunity to factor into all 5 FORCES to see what is REALLY going on....too often we blame ourselves for things that really had nothing to do with us, too often we blame others when we should be blaming ourselves, sometimes we give Satan to much credit or not enough, and we often times give God all the blame...and basically we just live in a fallen world, "stuff happens"...thing is I know this world is NOT MY HOME...AMEN!

    It is all about separating the TRUTHS from the LIES!
     
    #22 Matt22:37-39, Apr 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2013
  3. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    The truth is that God IS in control of everything at all times and he is working every single thing that ever happens out for his own glory and the good of his people.

    Exod 4:11 Then the Lord said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the Lord?

    Deut 32:39 See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god beside me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand.

    2 Chr 20:6 and said, “O Lord, God of our fathers, are you not God in heaven? You rule over all the kingdoms of the nations. In your hand are power and might, so that none is able to withstand You.

    Ps 103:19 The Lord has established His throne in the heavens, and His kingdom rules over all.

    Ps 115:3 Our God is in the heavens; He does all that He pleases.

    Ps 135:6 Whatever the Lord pleases, He does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps.

    Isa 45:5-7 I am the Lord, and there is no other, besides Me there is no God; I equip you, though you do not know me, that people may know, from the rising of the sun and from the west, that there is none besides Me; I am the Lord, and there is no other. I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.

    Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all My purpose,’

    Dan 4:35 All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and He does according to His will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay His hand or say to Him, “What have you done?”

    Luke 1:37 For nothing will be impossible with God.

    Acts 4:27-28 For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your plan had predestined to take place.

    Acts 17:26 And He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place

    Rev 17:17 For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.



    A lie is that God is NOT in control and that man can thwart God's purposes.

    The truth is that God is infinitely bigger than you make him out to be in these posts.
     
    #23 Luke2427, Apr 23, 2013
  4. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    Sorry, you are wrong even the Israelites didn't get to go in the PROMISE LAND because of their disobedience. So you are saying it was God's will to LIE and promise them something then KEEP them from reaching the goal cause God what changed His mind? or He juts like playing games with us?

    I shared with you 5 categories ALL things that happen must be examined by and fit into...bottom line that I made is GOD'S WILL...GOD'S SOVEREIGN WILL is that we LOVE Him and draw close to Him and to LOVE others as our self...hence my name Matt22:37039...

    hat is the KEY WORD found in Romans 8:28..."TO THOSE WHO LOVE GOD AND ARE CALLED"....that love is OUR YIELDING/SUBMITTING, that is what God desires and what His will is no matter the circumstances...not that God CAUSED the circumstance, but that He desires that out of the bad we turn to Him for all our comfort and strength...and in doing so we are a WITNESS to others and we GLORIFY HIM!

    We were put on this earth to GLORIFY GOD.....bottom line. The sad truth is many are NOT doing that, many are dying not even coming close to being Christ like, so obviously God isn't controlling everyone and everything, but He does have His way of working it all out to fulfill His premises.

    The way you make it sound is like WE HAVE NO PART and we are just mere PUPPETS that God like to mess with?
     
    #24 Matt22:37-39, Apr 23, 2013
  5. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    Great Point....Luke!

    And I think that Matt27 will eventually come to realize this as being true. However, like all of us, Matt27 is at a different point of sanctification then you or I, or even Icon. With that said, we all learn, daily and by each life experience or event that we encounter.

    When I said that His Word is like a living organism, what I meant was that His Word continues to evolve/grow/illiuminate in our live, spirit, mind, heart and soul. And we continue to wake up and see His Word in a new, more awesome way with each day, or trial or event or blessing.

    Matt27 is right on time with God and His calling and purpose in their life; just as He is in mine and yours.

    We all, like that vine, grow, get pruned back from time to time, and continue to grow and bear bigger and better fruit with each season of our life.
     
    #25 righteousdude2, Apr 23, 2013
  6. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    Sorry Luke, you are wrong even the Israelites didn't get to go in the PROMISE LAND because of their disobedience. So you are saying it was God's will to LIE and promise them something, then KEEP them from reaching the goal cause God what... changed His mind? or He just likes playing games with them?

    I shared with you 5 categories ALL things that happen must be examined by and fit into...bottom line that I made is GOD'S WILL...GOD'S SOVEREIGN WILL is that we LOVE Him and draw close to Him and to LOVE others as our self...hence my name Matt22:37039...

    That is the KEY WORD found in Romans 8:28..."TO THOSE WHO LOVE GOD AND ARE CALLED"....that love is OUR YIELDING/SUBMITTING, that is what God desires and what His will is no matter the circumstances...not that God CAUSED the circumstance, but that He desires that out of the bad we turn to Him for all our comfort and strength...and in doing so we are a WITNESS to others and we GLORIFY HIM!..That is the GOOD Romans 8:28 talks about, or it can be an eternal good as well...not always worldly.

    We were put on this earth to GLORIFY GOD.....bottom line. The sad truth is many are NOT doing that, many are dying not even coming close to being Christ like, so obviously God isn't controlling everyone and everything, but He does have His way of working it all out to fulfill His promises.

    The way you make it sound is like WE HAVE NO PART and we are just mere PUPPETS that God like to mess with?
     
    #26 Matt22:37-39, Apr 23, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2013
  7. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    What are you talking about?

    Are you saying that God did not know they would disobey?

    Are you saying that God could not have stopped them from disobeying?

    Are you saying that their having to spend forty years in the wilderness did not work out for his glory?

    Are you saying that God was really trying hard to get them into the promised land and just couldn't do it? They were too strong for him?

    Sovereign means control. Your statement does not make sense.



    More than that.

    We are clay and he is the potter.

    At least for the puppet there are strings between he and the master.

    God controls us directly- without strings. His hand is ON the clay.

    That's control.

    When Satan destroyed everything Job had, Job said, "The LORD hath taken away..."

    Job had good theology.

    He understood that even Satan was just a pawn in the hand of the Almighty.

    The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. Proverbs 16:4
     
    #27 Luke2427, Apr 23, 2013
  8. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member
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    I don't believe Luke said that....

    >The way you make it sound is like WE HAVE NO PART and we are just mere PUPPETS that God like to mess with?<

    You have some learning when it comes to the Father, just like all of us do.

    I get so tired of people on this baord coming out of the place that they have all the answers, and judging those who do not measure up to where they think they have all the answers.

    You do not possess ALl the right answers, and it is highly presumptious of you to come across as if you do. We will all have out eyes opened in heaven, and the way you are going at it right now, if you were to die right now, you'd have some real eye opening moments, for sure.

    Look, I don't have all the answers. And for sure you don't. We are all put here to help one another through this life. It is like a spiritual mine field out there, and each of us owe it to one another to give and take as we walk through the little surprises the devil and life has for us.

    We can do so much more as believers when we come out of the place of love, and treating each other as better than were are. Isn't that how Jesus would sant it to be. Isn't it said that we should be humble towards one another? And isn't humility the act of being meek, submissive,
    unpretentious and modest in the presence of each other????

    After all, didn't Peter tell us in 1 Peter 5:6 to, "So put away all pride from yourselves. You are standing under the powerful hand of God. At the right time He will lift you up?"

    We ALL have so much to learn, and a ton of the learning does come by way of those we humble ourselves to under the hand og God!
     
    #28 righteousdude2, Apr 23, 2013
  9. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    You guys need to deal with the message and not the messenger...just because you can't argue with what I say, doesn't mean you have to resort to this level....I know how this board and others work, so you aren't fooling me.

    I don't have to defend what I say, for one I've gotten enough positive feedback from balanced Christians I know from other sources (not from extremist) who understand true agape love and the fundamentals of Christianity.

    So your job since these are MY THREADS I AM STARTING is for you to disprove what I say without spinning and twisting what i say...with logic and God's word. The problem is you can't refute so you attack, it won't work cause I'm too logical for that...unlike most women

    there I just gave you guys a rabbit trail...take off on it
     
    #29 Matt22:37-39, Apr 23, 2013
  10. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    .
    Lam 3:32-33: "Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love. For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to anyone." His "bringing grief" may be more about allowing (think Job?).

    Jer 32:35: "They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin." God seems to flatly deny even mentally causing them to do such a detestable thing.

    :sleeping_2:
     
    #30 Matt22:37-39, Apr 23, 2013
  11. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    Lam 3:32-33: "Though he brings grief, he will show compassion, so great is his unfailing love. For he does not willingly bring affliction or grief to anyone." His "bringing grief" may be more about allowing (think Job?).

    Jer 32:35: "They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin." God seems to flatly deny even mentally causing them to do such a detestable thing.



    Hmmm...I guess that proved a point...;)
     
    #31 Matt22:37-39, Apr 23, 2013
  12. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are you saying that God did not know they were doing those sins? or that they were God causing them directly to do those things?
     
    #32 Yeshua1, Apr 23, 2013
  13. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    No it didn't. You didn't deal with a single verse posted that contradicts your position.

    There were numerous verses and you think you can erase them with ONE???

    This is why you are in over your depth here.

    Most of the posters here know better.
     
    #33 Luke2427, Apr 23, 2013
  14. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    No one one is debating what God knows
     
    #34 Matt22:37-39, Apr 23, 2013
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    what do you think God was addressing here ?
     
    #35 Yeshua1, Apr 23, 2013
  16. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    what do you mean can you be more specific?
     
    #36 Matt22:37-39, Apr 23, 2013
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    not clear on what point you were making by quoting that passage!
     
    #37 Yeshua1, Apr 23, 2013
  18. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    OH sorry, I am sure there are more like when God changed His mind about Moses and the Isrealites, when Moses pleaded for their life.

    It is saying God DOESN'T CAUSE people to do anything...He can enlighten them through many means...but to say what everyone does is God ordained isn't biblical
     
    #38 Matt22:37-39, Apr 23, 2013
  19. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    can God do what He wants to do though?

    His Will is supreme, right?
    And would say those records of God changing His mind would be from out perspective, thatto us appeared that he did, for God mind has a;ready determined what shall come to pass , and some of that he directly does, others thru third parties, but still remains sovereign and does not change!
     
    #39 Yeshua1, Apr 23, 2013
  20. Matt22:37-39

    Matt22:37-39 New Member

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    Question: "What is the difference between God's sovereign will and God's perfect will?"

    Answer: When speaking of God’s will, many people see three different aspects of it in the Bible. The first aspect is known as God’s decretive, sovereign, or hidden will. This is God’s "ultimate" will. This facet of God’s will comes out of the recognition of God’s sovereignty and the other aspects of God’s nature. This expression of God’s will focuses on the fact that God sovereignly ordains everything that comes to pass. In other words, there is nothing that happens that is outside of God’s sovereign will. This aspect of God’s will is seen in verses like Ephesians 1:11, where we learn that God is the one “who works all things according to the counsel of His will,” and Job 42:2, "I know that You can do everything, And that no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You.” This view of God’s will is based on the fact that, because God is sovereign, His will can never be frustrated. Nothing happens that is beyond His control.

    This understanding of His sovereign will does not imply that God causes everything to happen. Rather, it acknowledges that, because He is sovereign, He must at least permit or allow whatever happens to happen. This aspect of God’s will acknowledges that, even when God passively permits things to happen, He must choose to permit them, because He always has the power and right to intervene. God can always decide to either permit or stop the actions and events of this world. Therefore, as He allows things to happen, He has “willed” them in this sense of the word.

    While God’s sovereign will is often hidden from us until after it comes to pass, there is another aspect of His will that is plain to us: His preceptive or revealed will. As the name implies, this facet of God’s will means that God has chosen to reveal some of His will in the Bible. The preceptive will of God is God’s declared will concerning what we should or should not do. For example, because of the revealed will of God, we can know that it is God’s will that we do not steal, that we love our enemies, that we repent of our sins, and that we be holy as He is holy. This expression of God’s will is revealed both in His Word and in our conscience, through which God has written His moral law upon the hearts of all men. The laws of God, whether found in Scripture or in our hearts, are binding upon us. We are accountable when we disobey them.

    Understanding this aspect of God’s will acknowledges that while we have the power and ability to disobey God’s commands, we do not have the right to do so. Therefore, there is no excuse for our sin, and we cannot claim that by choosing to sin we are simply fulfilling God’s sovereign decree or will. Judas was fulfilling God’s sovereign will in betraying Christ, just as the Romans who crucified Him were. That does not justify their sins. They were no less evil or treacherous, and they were held accountable for their rejection of Christ (Acts 4:27-28). Even though in His sovereign will God allows or permits sin to happen, we are still accountable to Him for that sin.

    The third aspect of God’s will that we see in the Bible is God’s permissive or perfect will. This facet of God’s will describes God’s attitude and defines what is pleasing to Him. For example, while it is clear that God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, it is also clear that He wills or decrees their death. This expression of God’s will is revealed in the many verses of Scripture which indicate what God does and does not take pleasure in. For example, in 1 Timothy 2:4 we see that God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth,” yet we know that God’s sovereign will is that “no one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day” (John 6:44).

    If we are not careful, we can easily become preoccupied or even obsessed with finding the “will” of God for our lives. However, if the will we are seeking is His secret, hidden, or decretive will, we are on a foolish quest. God has not chosen to reveal that aspect of His will to us. What we should seek to know is the perceptive or revealed will of God. The true mark of spirituality is when we desire to know and live according to the will of God as revealed in Scripture, and that can be summarized as “be holy for I am Holy” (1 Peter 1:15-16). Our responsibility is to obey the revealed will of God and not to speculate on what His hidden will for us might be. While we should seek to be “led by the Holy Spirit,” we must never forget that the Holy Spirit is primarily leading us to righteousness and to being conformed into the image of Christ so that our lives will glorify God. God calls us to live our lives by every word that proceeds from His mouth.

    Living according to His revealed will should be the chief aim or purpose of our lives. Romans 12:1-2 summarizes this truth, as we are called to present our “bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.” To know the will of God, we should immerse ourselves in the written Word of God, saturating our minds with it, and praying that the Holy Spirit will transform us through the renewing of our minds, so that the result is what is good, acceptable and perfect—the will of God.

    www.gotquestions.org
     
    #40 Matt22:37-39, Apr 23, 2013
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