Evicting Christianity from America

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Jan 2, 2006.

  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Are "Christian values unconstitutional"?

    Our constitution prohibits our government from restricting the free exercise of our faith and as part of that freedom it prevents the government from making any law regarding any religion.

    That means the admendment is PRO religion not ANTI religion. So the law allowing congress to hire a Christian pastor to start each session with prayer to God -- the Christian God, in no way interfered with what that SAME group of American representatives put together in the constitution and Bill of Rights.

    Even the statement in our Declaration of Independence "WE hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men (all mankind not just Christians) are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" does not violate the first ammendment!

    How "surprising"!!

    In the Dover case a small band of liberals have taken it upon themselves to "re-define" the constitution such that it is now "unconstitutional" to allow students in science class to review data in nature that is favorable to Christianity!

    For those liberals in Dover it is "unconstiutional" to fail to censor science in favor of atheist evolutionism. In fact "Atheist evolutionism" is now ALL that our "redefined constitution" ALLOWS science to consider when it comes to life, living things, the history of living species. Only "Atheist Darwinian evolutionism" is fit or "Constitutionally safe" to be forced onto ALL students no matter if they are atheist or Christian.

    All this censorship is hidden behind the pretense of "protecting our constitutional rights".

    The problem is that Christianity overlaps our society in two key areas. The origin of all living species (the broad view of history of living things on this planet and how they came to be here) -- as well as moral values and the sanctity of life. Our Holy Book "the Bible" starts with the Creation of ALL life on earth and the resulting laws and values for human life are then DERIVED from the fact and authority of our CREATOR.

    It is fine for the atheist evolutionist to say "yes but not for me" -- but if the Christian must be told that "ONLY the ATHEIST's preference for the history of living things is constitionally valid" then the Christian CAN NOT argue in EITHER Law or Science for the sanctity of human life based on a Creator and Creation facts that are "unconstitutional" and prohibited from factual consideration!

    As has been pointed out - our own Declaration of Independance argues FROM the creation fact. In Dover draconian censorship became the law of their land with the result that the Declaration of Independance's appeal to the Creator is now a fact to be censored. A fact they viewed as "unconstitutional".

    Similar arguments to those made in our own Declaration of Indepenence could not be made in a Dover court of law for either the sanctity of Marriage or the sanctity of human life or the model for the family or the argument against killing the weak, elderly, sick (all deemed less "fit" in Darwinian scenarios that GENERATE the human species).

    In the Bible - man's moral values DERIVE FROM the fact of the Creator and Creation not the other way around. It works the same way in society as it turns out. As much as our atheist wannabe groups here might value the atheist states of Russia and China during their Communist Golden Age - those systems decay over time.

    Nazi Germany is a good "logical conclusion" for the idea that "only Darwininan evolutionism" should be "accepted as fact" when it comes to the orign, methods, value and progress of living things over time. They 'Select out' from the population that group that they want to promote and they apply "Darwinian principles for exclusion" to those groups they consider "weak".

    Historically we have been able to argue for moral laws and protecting the sanctity of human life by arguing FROM the fact of our Creator and His continued active authority in Creation - but that day is ending.

    The U.S Senate has on it's walls frescos of the major law givers/makers of history - and in the center there is Moses with a full frontal view instead of a side view as the rest. The reason is that Moses did not create law - he was GIVEN Law.

    The Ten Commandments are engraved on the doors and walls of the U.S. Supreme court. And they have the Creation Memorial Holy Day embedded at their center.

    Atheist darwinian evolutionists may be thinking "finally we are getting beyond all that stuff" -- but the question is what are Christians thinking?

    In Christ,

    Bob

    [ January 02, 2006, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]
     
  2. billwald

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    The one who pays the piper names the tune. If you don't want youd children in govt schools then remove them. It is still a free country.
     
  3. LorrieAB

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    2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
    2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

    Did you think the US would be exempt form this? What you mention is only HOW they will do it; for they must dispence with or otherwise pervert the law(s) in a "free" country:

    Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think TO CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

    It's all a precurser brother to make ready the way! Does anyone really think that when we CHANGE TIME to "daylight savings" that we really save energy? When you have people go to and come back from work in the dark you don't save energy; it's just getting people here in the good-ol-US-of-A used to doing what they are told no matter how rediculous (like believing we came from a rock)!

    Mar 4:19 And the CARES OF THIS WORLD, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, CHOKE THE WORD, and it becometh unfruitful.

    Luk 8:14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are CHOKED WITH CARES and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring NO FRUIT to perfection.

    Luk 21:34 And TAKE HEED TO YOURSELVES, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and CARES OF THIS LIFE, and so that day COME UPON YOU UNAWARES.
    Luk 21:35 For AS A SNARE shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

    Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: SEE THAT YE BE NOT TROUBLED: FOR ALL THESE THINGS MUST COME TO PASS, but the end is not yet.

    The Lord is driving, and He knows where He's going!

    Love in Christ
     
  4. BobRyan

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    And certainly we can recommend that. But this goes beyond "School" - if the government determines that it is "unconstitutional" to appeal to the Creator or the fact of Creation showing His authority then laws for the sanctity of life, marriage, freedom etc that historically have derived FROM that authority can not be argued above the level of "survival of the fittest". And that is to evict Christianity not only from Schools but from the very Nation that espoused it!

    Do we then "leave the nation" as we leave the schools? Why not wake up now and simply "object"?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. billwald

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    Barring a miracle it won't happen. It is obvious for various reasons that people are satisfied that the devil we know is preferred to the devil we don't know, politically speaking. We can most all "live with" the Rs and/or the Ds.
     
  6. BobRyan

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    I think it is "innevitable" that Christians in the U.S will not tolerate the eviction of Christianity for long. What is happening now is that they find isolation in private schools or home schools and imagine that they are immune to the foibles of bad-science being practiced in public schools under the guise that it is "unconstiutional" to fail to censor data from the science class that might be disconfirming to Atheist beliefs in naturalism.

    But as I said - this thing snowballs because we derive our laws and morals from the concept of "all mankind being given certain inalienable rights by our creator". The sanctity of life, the family unit and family rights etc are derived from that higher concept of the Creator.

    God's Law itself has the Creation fact -- the sequence of 7 days in Gen 1-2:3 embedded in it. All of its authority is derived from the fact that the Creator is God and He alone determines the validity of moral laws for right vs wrong. Without that - it is all just "survival of the fittest" and whoever happens to be in power at the moment.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Our constitution does not say we can't pray in school. As a matter of fact, when this country was founded, they used the Bible in school as a textbook!!

    For reading and writing and spelling! Now we can't take a bible to school?

    Bob is right, why don't we just stop it now? The constitution says that "congress shall make no law concerning religion", but the supreme court interprets it the wrong way, and makes plenty of laws that are UNCONSTITUTIONAL!!!

    The world has gone mad and a lot of Christians are just falling into line.

    Working for Jesus,

    Tam
     
  8. Johnv

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    No, but the constitution forbids the govermnent from respecting the relisious establishment, and mandated school-led prayer does just that. I certainly do not want a public school teacher requiring my kids to pray, do you?

    That's untrue. It is not illegal for students to bring a bible or any other religious material to school. My daughter has a bible in her backback every day, and reads it often at lunchtime. Her high school library has several translations of the Bible and other religious texts available for checkout. My daughter used the Song of Solomon as a literary source for an English report on poetic styles. She got an A.
     
  9. Archei

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    Wait a second...
    The constitution forbids the establishment of religion, i.e., a state church.
    It does not forbid religious establishments from acting and doing as they are required by their religion.

    Now, what you "can" and "can't" take to school isn't regulated by law. The law says you can, but that's not enforced. I had a friend who had to carry around a copy of the constitution and other applicible laws in order to keep school officials from telling him to get rid of the Bibles, get rid of the christian-message clothing, etc...
    Laws aren't "hard and fast" anymore. They're open to "intepretation" (rather: Disregarding)
     
  10. Johnv

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    It does more than that. It forbids the respecting of the establishment of religion as a whole. It does not simply forbid the establishment of a government-run church. In fact, versions of Amendment I that only prohibited a state-run organized religion were abandonded by the framers in favor of the current and more broad Amendment I wording banning the respecting of religious establishmets in general.

    That is likewise true, as noted in the "free excercise" clause in Amendment I (...nor prohibiting the free excercise thereof...).
     
  11. BobRyan

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    The first ammendment in the Bill of Rights states

    Nothing in there about athieism being the only "approved views in science" nothing about a requirement to censor science classes in favor of atheist darwinian evolutionism so that any disconfirming data or opposing theories are to be banned from the classroom.

    In fact nothing in there to stop congress from using government funds to have a government sponsored Christian prayer at the start of each session of congress.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  12. BobRyan

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    MAKING laws for censoring Christian speach from the public, or from science class or FROM anything would be a violation of the ammendment to "MAKE NO LAW" that prohibits or establishes a specific religion.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. Ray Berrian

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    Personally, I believe we have been evicting God out of our schools and society for mega years.

    The Twin Towers, the flooding in all the southern states, the mud slides and fires that have taken thousands of acres in the west are all signs from the Lord that we are on our last chance to turn this nation around.

    The Lord destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D. because of the Israelites rejection of the Messiah/Jesus and because of their backsliding away from Him.

    The question is, 'Do you think that the Lord will put up with our sins and turning Him out of our society without bringing judgment on the United States? Are we better than His own chosen people, the Jewish people?

    By outsourcing and importing so much from China the Lord is preparing us for a fall just like Jerusalem.

    The hammer is about to fall on us!

    Dr. Berrian, Th.D.
     
  14. Rhetorician

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    Dr. Berrian,

    Tell about your Th.D., where did you get it and in what discipline did you study?

    I would love to know, I have given twenty years of ministry to study for my doctorate.

    sdg!

    rd
     
  15. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    What part of"shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

    What part of this don't people understand?

    Jesus make a correct analogy when He called us sheep.

    Some big head honcho in Washington says do something and we just follow the leader.

    Sheep would run off the cliff if the leader did.

    Selah,

    Tam
     
  16. Phillip

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    This may be true, but I think you are stepping over the line a bit in telling everybody that natural disasters and terrorist activities are a direct result of our relationship with God.

    It may be so, but I don't think you are the one with the secret "key" to what is punishment and what is natural occurances.
     
  17. just-want-peace

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    Interesting!

    Here's one person claiming that all these disasters are a warning from God, (this scenario has appeared multiple times on the BB since 9-11, with the same results) and what's the response? To paraphrase, "Who made you God's spokesman?"

    While it's true that (at least to my knowledge), none of us know for certain whether it's just natural disasters, or God's warning, I find it revealing that so many are quick to dismiss the possibility of the latter with such quips as " the rain falls on the just and the unjust" as a supposed proof that these have no bearing to God's judgements OR warnings.

    I personally believe that God is giving us warnings, but that's just me!

    I don't plan on being adament about it, but IF I were, I'd be adament on the side of caution rather than chancing ignoring a message from God.

    Also, IF you don't know the reason for the events, what better way to react than as if they were/are a wake-up call from God? I see nothing but positive with this approach but possible danger from the "rain on the just unjust" approach.

    Israel was famous for rejecting the "natural/political" disaster warnings that we know after the fact WERE warnings from God. (We have been subjected to too much "God is loving" and not enough "God is righteous" platitudes!)

    Is America going to follow suit?????
     
  18. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    I agree with you Just-want-peace, to many people just don't want to think that God could ever do something if we don't get sin out of our country. You know, abortion, gambling, brothels etc.

    I want to be the first one to say, Bob is not the only one who thinks this. It is all over the place, if one would care to LISTEN instead of just passing it off as some nutty idea!!

    There are thousands upon thousands of people who believe the same thing. They may be a majority and just don't want to speak out and be ridiculed!!!

    Selah,

    Tam
     
  19. BobRyan

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    We have an interesting scenarion in Joel 1 and 2. Chapter 2 tells Israel to engage in full steam repentance. But chapter 1 says "look around you - stuff is breaking, the plan is not working, you are under a curse".

    But what if they could simply respond "how can we possibly know that all this stuff you say that is not working - is really from God our just our own dumb luck?". That would void the motivation to "Wake up" that the entire book relies upon.

    In Lev 18 God gives a list of things that HE says HE will destroy even a PAGAN nation for doing - hard to believe that the US does not even qualify under "pagan nation" status. I think we "at least" come up to that level if not higher.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  20. BobRyan

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    Of course all this assumes that "Some things" are "self-evident" or as Paul says in Romans 1 "clearly seen".
     

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