Evidence of Conditional Election

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Van, Oct 7, 2013.

  1. Van

    Van
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    Lets consider that God choosing you or me as a specific individual for salvation, occurs during our lifetime and His choice is based on God accepting our love and commitment to Christ as sufficient for His purpose. What scriptures teach this conditional election view?

    James 2:5 indicates that God chooses the poor based on the world’s value system, but rich in faith according to God’s value system. They are heirs of the kingdom, which He promised to those who love Him. Clearly no matter whether the choice is made during the lifetime of the individual, or based on the foreseen condition of the individual, the choice is based on the characteristics of the individual, someone although having little in the way of material wealth who is “rich” in faith, someone who loves Jesus.

    Matthew 19:16-26 (the rich young ruler story) indicates that folks must turn loose of all their worldly treasures and trust only in Jesus in order to enter the kingdom of God. Again, clearly teaching that our heart attitude contributes to gaining entrance to the kingdom of God.

    1 Corinthians 1:18-31 indicates that if we hold ourselves in high regard, thinking of ourselves – I am wise, I am educated, my PhD trumps your high school diploma – we are adhering to the wisdom of the world. But through the wisdom of the world, we will not come to know God, verse 21. Instead, if we hold ourselves in low regard, thinking of ourselves – I am foolish, I make mistakes, I am a sinner, helpless to save myself – we are ready to accept the gospel of Christ crucified. Thus again, our heart condition contributes to gaining entrance to the kingdom of God. And God did this, chose folks of humility to shame those who are wise in their own eyes, verses 26-29. Again, clearly teaching that God chooses folks for salvation based at least in part on their heart condition, hence a conditional election.
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    NOT ONE if they are interpreted by their context!!!!!


    He is talking about depraved human preferences of already saved baptized members of the congregation. Please get a grip on context!

    This is rediculous! It teaches the very opposite. It teaches there is "none good but one and that is God" and yet the rich young rulers soteriology was the very opposite as he considered himself as "good" as the "good master" and getting better every day! Jesus is pointing to the truth that "with man it is impossible" to be saved by good works or law keeping as NOT ONE JEW every kept the law according to Christ (Jn. 7:19) and NOT ONE other than Christ ever will.

    Instead, if we hold ourselves in low regard, thinking of ourselves – I am foolish, I make mistakes, I am a sinner, helpless to save myself – we are ready to accept the gospel of Christ crucified. [/QUOTE]

    Absolute foolishness!! He is teaching no such thing! He is teaching that God did not choose "many" wise to be saved, although he did choose some, but purposely chose those very people esteemed as law class for the very purpose that none could boast in ANYTHING about themselves that merited God's choice. You are teaching the very opposite!
    Thus again, our heart condition contributes to gaining entrance to the kingdom of God. And God did this, chose folks of humility to shame those who are wise in their own eyes, verses 26-29. Again, clearly teaching that God chooses folks for salvation based at least in part on their heart condition, hence a conditional election.[/QUOTE]
     
    #2 The Biblicist, Oct 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2013
  3. Van

    Van
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    Again, there is no need to respond to posts devoid of content. The old "taint so and you are evil for saying so" graffiti we see time and again.

    Just read James 2:5 folks, and ask if James is saying since God chose poor people who were rich in faith and loved God, you should not be making a choice based on material wealth.

    Just read Matthew 19:16-26 folks, and ask if Jesus is telling us it is more difficult for a rich man to turn loose of worldly treasure for heavenly treasure.

    Read 1 Corinthians 1:26-30 and ask yourself if Paul to teaching God chose individuals out of this world, during their lifetime. This is inescapable, and calling it foolishness cuts no mustard.
     
  4. Iconoclast

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    Absolute foolishness!! He is teaching no such thing! He is teaching that God did not choose "many" wise to be saved, although he did choose some, but purposely chose those very people esteemed as law class for the very purpose that none could boast in ANYTHING about themselves that merited God's choice. You are teaching the very opposite!
    Thus again, our heart condition contributes to gaining entrance to the kingdom of God. And God did this, chose folks of humility to shame those who are wise in their own eyes, verses 26-29. Again, clearly teaching that God chooses folks for salvation based at least in part on their heart condition, hence a conditional election.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

    :thumbsup::wavey:
     
  5. Iconoclast

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    There is no need for any consideration of this error.The scripture is clear God has elected the sheep before the world was.To oppose the clear teaching of God is just wrong.

    9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


    This as written describes a works salvation.



    Thus again, our heart condition contributes to gaining entrance to the kingdom of God. And God did this, chose folks of humility to shame those who are wise in their own eyes, verses 26-29. Again, clearly teaching that God chooses folks for salvation based at least in part on their heart condition, hence a conditional election.[/QUOTE]

    This is pelagianism...not the gospel.This is to be rejected.
     
  6. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Simply an admission of inability to give a response and so an admission of error on your part.


    J
    Context is not about salvation, not about election but about saved people giving preference to other rich saved people. You are teaching contrary to the very principle you are asserting as you believe God does give preference due to personal wealth - preseen faith!

    You are spouting pure ignorance! It teaches no such thing! What it teaches is the IMPOSSIBILITY of turning loose of the riches of SELF goodness. Not only does Christ use the actual word IMPOSSIBLE but gives the illustration to prove it is IMPOSSIBLE as a camel going through the eye of a needle and denies it is IMPOSSIBLE for any man as there is NONE GOOD BUT ONE and that is God. You know nothing about this passage and you pervert everything about it!

    Again you speak ignorantly! The fact that Paul says he did choose SOME wise completely invalidates your whole argument. For pete's sake look at Paul's own conclusion in 1 Cor. 1:29-31!!!! God did not choose more low calss than "SOME" wise because they were "wise" or "low class" but because His election was to be of grace so that NONE chosen could boast that their choice was deserved in any fashion.
     
  7. Van

    Van
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    Folks, this is all they can offer. Graffitti! The "you speak ignorance" deep theology of Calvinism. They simply throw nonsense at the wall and hope something sticks. LOL

    1) Verse after verse, passage after passage teach conditional election during our lifetime.

    2) God chose (a) poor people, (b) people rich in faith, and (c) people who love God. James 2:5. Just read it folks, conditional election taught clearly by scripture.

    3) God chose (a)not many wise, (b)not many mighty, and (c) not many noble, 1 Corinthians 1:26. Just read it folks, conditional election taught clearly by scripture.

    4) When God individually chooses you, He sets you apart in Christ, 1 Corinthians 1:30. Just read it folks, conditional election taught clearly by scripture.

    5) And where is the rebuttal, all those passages that teach God's individual election for salvation from the beginning was not through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth? Zip folks, there is nothing on the other side. Case closed.
     
  8. Yeshua1

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    the FATHER CHOSE TO PLACE US IN jESUS BASED UPON hIS GOOD AND PLEASING wILL IN REGARDS TO SAVING US, PERIOD!
     
  9. Van

    Van
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    Typical Calvinist graffitti!. The assertion devoid of any scriptural support flys in the face of the verses posted which demonstrated conditional election through faith in the truth.

    All Calvinist do is repeat ad nauseum "taint so and you are evil for saying so."

    James 2:5 indicates that God chooses the poor based on the world’s value system, but rich in faith according to God’s value system. They are heirs of the kingdom, which He promised to those who love Him. Clearly no matter whether the choice is made during the lifetime of the individual, or based on the foreseen condition of the individual, the choice is based on the characteristics of the individual, someone although having little in the way of material wealth who is “rich” in faith, someone who loves Jesus.

    Matthew 19:16-26 (the rich young ruler story) indicates that folks must turn loose of all their worldly treasures and trust only in Jesus in order to enter the kingdom of God. Again, clearly teaching that our heart attitude contributes to gaining entrance to the kingdom of God.

    1 Corinthians 1:18-31 indicates that if we hold ourselves in high regard, thinking of ourselves – I am wise, I am educated, my PhD trumps your high school diploma – we are adhering to the wisdom of the world. But through the wisdom of the world, we will not come to know God, verse 21. Instead, if we hold ourselves in low regard, thinking of ourselves – I am foolish, I make mistakes, I am a sinner, helpless to save myself – we are ready to accept the gospel of Christ crucified. Thus again, our heart condition contributes to gaining entrance to the kingdom of God. And God did this, chose folks of humility to shame those who are wise in their own eyes, verses 26-29. Again, clearly teaching that God chooses folks for salvation based at least in part on their heart condition, hence a conditional election.
     
  10. Yeshua1

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    How can sinners whose very nature is to rebel and go against the ways of God, whose desire is to gratify and please their own fleshy desires, willingly come to One they would always reject if left to their own devices?
     
  11. Van

    Van
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    Yeshua1 says no one can come to Christ at any time.

    Jesus says seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added.

    Yeshua1 adds to scripture, Jesus words are scripture.

    Yeshua1 says no one seeks God.

    Paul says Jews and Gentiles seek God.

    Calvinism is simply a shoddy understanding of scripture which must nullify verses from Genesis to Revelation. Matthew 23:13 tells us to men who were seeking God. Calvinism says, that verse does not mean what it says, i.e. nullification.
     

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