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Featured Evidence of evolution?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by billwald, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Again, you apparently have a problem with reading things! Go back and read what I said. I said Jesus showed the audiance how to interpret that passage BEFORE and AFTER the passage. Now, look at the texts I supplied. The first come BEFORE and the second comes AFTER. Can't get it much clearer than that!
     
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, he answered it! the Bible makes it clear that the jews hearing jesus speaking of drinking His bllod, eating his flresh took it as the RCC, and John comment on that was that they misunderstood, as its the WORDS of jesus and His DEATH that imparts life!

    You misread John, as his Gospel contrasts those walking in darkness hearing things literally, while jesus meant it spiritually!
     
  3. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    And thanks for showing clear evidence you understand nothing about the literal interpretation.
     
  4. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    > I wasn't alive during the Civil War. But because of artifacts, primary sources, photographs, and even secondary sources - I can know more about it today than even some who lived it did.

    Human history only goes back 6000 or so years. That Is a very short time span.

    There is no general agreement about JFK's homicide and millions of people have seen it TV.
     
  5. IANMO(IAMNTMYOWN)

    IANMO(IAMNTMYOWN) New Member

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    But, bill, that's just it. Where are the "intermediate" links that you claim we have found? I'd like to see a listing of them. As for as a continuous progress is concerned, evolutionists have been presenting these for decades - as a factual evidence - without evidence of links - intermediate, missing, or otherwise.

    [​IMG]


    That's why it is called a "theory". Only it is presented as fact - and a fact without merit, evidence, and not even a hint of even desiring evidence. No one is even trying anymore. We've just "accepted" the "fact" and don't care that it isn't factual at all.

    Well said! The intermediate links that Bill may have been referencing perhaps included Neanderthal, Lucy, and Nebraska Man (just to name a few). It's interesting to note though that Neanderthal was proven to be 100% human. Lucy was completely ape, and Nebraska man was a complete farse developed out of the single tooth of an extinct pig! The sad thing is that, although these links have been disproven long ago, they are still consistently used as evidence for evolution. Hmmm. And creationists are the ones with supposed biased thinking?

    There are so many others disclaimers of evolution such as the presence of polystratic fossils, lack of a complete geologic column, absence of substantial missing links, even the well-established second law of thermodynamics. The list can continue.

    Evolution seems such a sad counterpart to beauty of Divine Creation. I'd much rather live with a sanctity of and appreciation for life knowing that there was a mastermind behind my existence, rather than a bang and knowing that I'm nothing more than an evolving cell with animal instincts. I find evolution very insulting to my intelligence. Maybe I'm just proud?
     
  6. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    "Theory" means "well demonstrated hypotheses.

    >Where are the "intermediate" links that you claim we have found?

    You reject mDNA studies that indicate the entire human race descended from a very small African group?

    see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

    In the field of human genetics, Mitochondrial Eve refers to the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of modern humans. In other words, she was the woman from whom all living humans today descend, on their mother's side, and through the mothers of those mothers and so on, back until all lines converge on one person. Because all mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) is generally passed from mother to offspring without recombination, all mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) in every living person is directly descended from hers by definition. Mitochondrial Eve is the female counterpart of Y-chromosomal Adam, the patrilineal most recent common ancestor, although they lived thousands of years apart.


    Each ancestor (of people now living) in the line back to the matrilineal MRCA had female contemporaries such as sisters, female cousins, etc. and some of these female contemporaries may have descendants living now (with one or more males in their descendancy line). But none of the female contemporaries of the "Mitochondrial Eve" has descendants living now in an unbroken female line.


    Mitochondrial Eve is estimated to have lived around 200,000 years ago,[2] most likely in East Africa,[3] when Homo sapiens sapiens (anatomically modern humans) were developing as a population distinct from other human sub-species.


    Mitochondrial Eve lived later than Homo heidelbergensis and the emergence of Homo neanderthalensis, but earlier than the out of Africa migration.[4] The dating for 'Eve' was a blow to the multiregional hypothesis, and a boost to the hypothesis that modern humans originated relatively recently in Africa and spread from there, replacing more "archaic" human populations such as Neanderthals. As a result, the latter hypothesis became dominant.

    from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil


    A transitional fossil is any fossilized remains of a life form that exhibits traits common to both an ancestral group and its derived descendant group.[1] This is especially important where the descendant group is sharply differentiated by gross anatomy and mode of living from the ancestral group. These fossils serve as a reminder that taxonomic divisions are human constructs that have been imposed in hindsight on a continuum of variation. Because of the incompleteness of the fossil record, there is usually no way to know exactly how close a transitional fossil is to the point of divergence. Therefore, transitional fossils cannot be assumed to be direct ancestors of more recent groups.


    In 1859, when Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species was first published, the fossil record was poorly known. Darwin described the perceived lack of transitional fossils as "the most obvious and gravest objection which can be urged against my theory", but explained it by relating it to the extreme imperfection of the geological record.[2] He noted the limited collections available at that time, but described the available information as showing patterns that followed from his theory of descent with modification through natural selection.[3] Indeed, Archaeopteryx was discovered just two years later, in 1861, and represents a classic transitional form between dinosaurs and birds. Many more transitional fossils have been discovered since then, and there is now considered to be abundant evidence of how all classes of vertebrates are related, much of it in the form of transitional fossils.[4] Specific examples include humans and other primates, tetrapods and fish, and birds and dinosaurs.


    The phrase missing link has been used extensively in popular writings on human evolution to refer to a perceived gap in the hominid evolutionary record. It is most commonly used to refer to any new transitional fossil finds. Scientists, however, do not use the term, as it refers to a pre-evolutionary view of nature.
     
  7. mandym

    mandym New Member

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    Either way it is still not a fact nor should it be presented as such.
     
  8. IANMO(IAMNTMYOWN)

    IANMO(IAMNTMYOWN) New Member

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    Is is interesting to me that you maintained that it was a hypothesis and not a science. Why is it that so many evolutionists claim it as such? Not trying to be antagonistic, but simply making an observation.

    Also these fossils which you mentioned in your concluding paragraph. You mentioned archaeopterix. Is coelocanth included in them? Care to expound some? What evidence is there that thay are indeed links?
     
    #28 IANMO(IAMNTMYOWN), Jul 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2012
  9. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    I don't dismiss Mitochondrial Eve. I don't think it necessarily proves the actual Eve, but it is consistent with the belief system of Christians that all of humanity is descended from one woman. And was she in Africa or there abouts? It's possible. Was she of a slight color? It's highly probable.

    This is all observable and provable because we can take samples today and we can isolate in the organelles of our cells the mitochondria and isolate our maternal DNA.

    What I dismiss (generally speaking) is Wikipedia. No matter the topic, I just try not to rely on that source.

    But let's look at some actual research about mtEve.

    The Wikipedia article that you cited says that M-Eve and Y-Adam lived thousands of years apart. And lots of evolutionists claim that M-Eve lived somewhere around 200,000 years ago.

    Where did time-frame come from? It came from an assumption - not evidence. It came from an assumption that modern primates and modern humans share a common ancestor. And the further assumption that the common ancestor of the modern primate and human lived millions of years ago. If one starts with that assumed reference point and "calculates" when the early and small primate branched off into modern primates and humans, then yes, M-Eve lived a very long time ago.

    BUT - if modern primates and humans do NOT share a common ancestor, then all of that assuming is absolutelyl meaningless and the age attributed to M-Eve is as random as a drunk sailor throwing a dart at dartboard. Who knows where the dart will land. It's putting the cart before the horse to say that M-Eve lived 200,000 years ago because one believes that's when modern humans evolved.

    What one should do is to test modern DNA for mutation rate differences and start forward or NOW and count backwards. No assumptions.

    That's what some have done. (Carter, R. W., D. Criswell, J. and Sanford. 2008)

    ALSO - if one actually looks at the research done on our modern mtDNA, the differences are much smaller and and time accumulation isn't as large as one would think for these differences to occur.

    We KNOW - because of things that are observable and provable - that mutations can occur in just a couple of generations - NOT one mutation every 6.000 - 12,000 years.

    I do believe that M-Eve is a genuine part of the science of genetics. I just don't believe she existed 200,000 years ago. I'm not a STRICT young earther, but I don't believe that millions of years were necessary for all that has occurred to occur.
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    To me the biggest problem facing Darwinian evolutionists is that concerning mankind...

    there is NOTHING in their model to account for the 'something' that humans have that NO other animal has on earth...

    A soul. relationship directly to the Creator, a self awareness, an "it factor".

    Nothing to trigger that coming to humans per evolution, so HAD to be as bible states "God breatheda a soul into man!"


    Also, wouldn't there HAVE to be an external factor/force outside of evolution to give additional DNA in order to have the new species "evolve?"
     
  11. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

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    Evolution wasn't taught as a theory in my high school in the 1960's, it was taught as fact. That doesn't change the fact that it ISN'T fact; it's still just an unproved theory, but we see the proof of creation every day all around us.
     
  12. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member
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    I graduated from a Baptist college in which evolution was taught as fact in the Biology department and creation was taught as fact in the Old Testament survey classes. You are right, we see overwhelming proof of creation throughout each day.
     
  13. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >Is is interesting to me that you maintained that it was a hypothesis and not a science. Why is it that so many evolutionists claim it as such? Not trying to be antagonistic, but simply making an observation.

    Say again? That's like saying that making cookies is baking, not cooking.

    It is a problem of words and how professionals vs the press vs casual readers use them. Probably half the nasty arguments on this list are about common words wrongly used because some news reporter or other non-professional person tried to write about a complicated subject and explain it in 6th grade terms.


    BillyJeff Clinton was possibly the smartest president of the last century but put on a "good old boy" facade. When, during the impeachment hearings, he replied, "That depends on what 'is' means," I thought it was brilliant but it went over the heads of the Representatives. They were to dense to understand. So when someone in this list recently referred to Clinton "defining" the word, 'is," . . . what can I say!

    >Originally Posted by Jon-Marc
    >Evolution wasn't taught as a theory in my high school in the 1960's, it was taught as fact. That doesn't change the fact that it ISN'T fact; it's still just an unproved theory, but we see the proof of creation every day all around us.

    Please define "fact" and "proof." Why do hold your hypothesis of God to a lesser standard than you demand for the theory of evolution?

    Ernst Mach was one of the great scientists of the late 1800's early 1900's but he totally missed out on the discoveries about atoms and atomic theory because he refused to "believe in" anything he could not see with his own eyes. He could not see atoms, not even with a microscope. For him, they didn't exist.
     
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