Evolution and water

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by Terry_Herrington, Sep 30, 2004.

  1. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington
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    There are some here who claim to be Christians and to believe in evolution. I have a question:

    Why is it that water acts differently than other liquids? Other liquids continue to get denser as they get colder; however, water reaches its maximum density at 4 degrees Celsius. This allows water in lakes to freeze on the top and still allow aquatic life to exist underneath. If water acted like other liquids it would freeze from the bottom up and all the aquatic life would all die during a freeze.

    How is it that water has this property when other liquids do not? Seems like this points to an intelligent Creator instead of evolution.
     
  2. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows
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    Bodies of water freeze from the top down because ice is less dense and floats to the top - thus the icecap is on the top and not the bottom of a pond.

    Ice is less dense than liquid water because of the bonding types. As a liquid the van der Waals forces attract one molecule to another. At temperatures below 39 deg F these forces are less strong so hydrogen bonds form. The bond length is longer so there is increased distance between individual molecules.

    And yes - ALL of creation suggests and intelligent creator!

    As for your first statement about who "claim to be Christians" - anyone who trusts Christ as savior can CLAIM TO BE A CHRISTIAN!! Your assertion seems like a thinly veiled suggestion that anyone who believes in evolution cannot be a Christian.

    I could conjecture (with biblical backup) that many of the posters on this board, based on some of the hateful statements they have at times made, are not truly Christians - but I of course will not make such a statement - since we all are sinners and trust in Christ for our redemption.
     
  3. Johnv

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    Your statement appears to question the salvation and faith of those who do not adhere to a literalists YEC view.
     
  4. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington
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    What I meant is to point out the inconsistency of believing both in the God of the Bible and evolution at the same time. I believe that a person can be a Christian and "claim" to believe in evolution, just as I believe that a person can believe in evolution and "claim" to be a Christian. I was not talking about any particular person but was speaking in general.
     
  5. Paul of Eugene

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    As one of those in fact rather common folks who are both Christian and aware of the truth of evolution, it is certainly no big deal to concede that God planned a wonderful universe compatible with life including the wonderful properties of Water. In fact, that is my earnest belief!
     
  6. BobRyan

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    Evolutionists here claim to believe the Gospel. How is it that Gospel writers appeal to the very details of God as Creator - that evolutionists (even atheist evolutionists) so deny?

    Seems like an unlikely marriage between the myths of evolutionism and the Gospel. Why do it if you are not already an atheist?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  7. Terry_Herrington

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    I believe this statement is inconsistent with the truth.
     
  8. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
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    Challenge: Defend the position, with Scripture, that God created the universe and all that is in it, and that His method for creating life was evolution.
     
  9. Bro Tony

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    There is nothing stated in the OP that suggest one must have a YEC view. It is the matter of theistic-evolution. I know many Christians who believe in an old earth but do not believe in evolution. There is a teacher in our church who was a physics teacher for 30 years who holds to an old earth, but not evolution. We have a biologist who is now teaching high school who holds to the young earth and no evolution.

    I believe Christians have a real theological problem if they hold the theistic-evolution view, also some better be careful with words like truth of or fact of evolution.

    Bro Tony
     
  10. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows
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    Without a doubt one CAN be an evolutionist and a Christian. There isn't even anything to debate.

    And as we discussed before one does not have to see Genesis 1 as being literal in order to see it as scriptural and authoritative.

    The verses regarding salvation are clear that one must trust Christ for salvation. Nothing is mentioned about his/her views on interpretation of the OT.
     
  11. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
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  12. Charles Meadows

    Charles Meadows
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    Debby,

    I'm not sure if you're addressing that last post to me. But evolution has nothing to do with salvation. And as I have many times said I am not a Darwinian evolutionist.

    And in John 3 and Romans 10 and Acts 16 we see the qualifications for salvation. Belief in a literal Genesis is not among them. If one were to make the statement that, "a person isn't saved if he does this...", then the onus is on THAT INDIVIDUAL to back it up. And the claim that an evolutionist cannot be a Christian CANNOT be backed up - unless one asserts that the blood of Christ is not powerful enough to save, and that one must also do this and do that and believe genesis literally... I wouldn't want to go there!

    You seem to forget that while many evolutionists are atheists some are Christians. They revere God's word just as much as you and I but they think that God meant something other than a literal young earth creation and are not afraid to study and show themselves approved.
     
  13. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
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    Challenge: Defend the position, with Scripture, that one must ascribe to a YEC view of creation in order to trust Christ as Savior.
     
  14. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
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    I'm not questioning anyone's salvation here. Read the sentence again.
    If that doesn't help, then here it is in other words: Prove, with scripture, that

    1. God created the universe and everything in it, and
    2. God's method of creating life was what is called evolution.

    That request doesn't say a thing about salvation.
     
  15. tragic_pizza

    tragic_pizza
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    Prove He didn't.


    We're even.
     
  16. Paul of Eugene

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    It is trivially true that scripture teaches us God created the universe and all that is in it.

    One does not arrive at the idea of evolution through reading the scripture; one finds out about evolution by evaluating the evidence from the world at large, in the same way one finds out that it is not the sun moving across the sky but rather the earth rotating that causes day and night.
     
  17. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
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    "Trivially?" We as believers trust our very souls to what we find in scripture. Why not this matter? My scriptural proof that God created everything after its own kind, as He spoke, is the book of Genesis.

    Go read "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel. See what the scientists he spoke with have to say.
     
  18. Paul of Eugene

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    Of course its a great truth! What I meant was, its very very easy to see from scripture that God is creator of all.
     
  19. Terry_Herrington

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    To believe in evolution one has denied the faith. But, since I do not believe in this "doctrine of devils" I don't have to worry about explaining to God why I doubted His Word.
     
  20. Paul of Eugene

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    Terry, I understand you are very sincere and trying to hold to the truth. Some of us feel, however, it is absolutely necessary to deny plain and valid evidence to hold to you position. Its like this: would you stop believing in the rotation of the earth just because the Bible says it was the sun that stood still over Joshua's battle? You can't, because you've been persuaded by science.

    This does not mean you decided to reject the Bible.

    Many of us have seen enough evidence to be persuaded, intellectually, that evolution is a proven fact. In our minds, it appears as firmly a fact as the rotation of the earth in your mind.

    Those of us who are Christians and have come to this conclusion do just what you do with the scriptures that assert the sun stopped moving for Joshua. We feel sorry for your loss in being unaware of so much of the reality of what God has done.
     

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