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Evolution/Creation Poll -- Please Vote!

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Phillip, Dec 27, 2004.

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Evolution/Creation Poll -- Please Vote! Please read carefully!

  1. 6 day Creation -- Genesis is literal

    74 vote(s)
    77.1%

  2. Gap or Old Earth, but no death until sin occurred

    8 vote(s)
    8.3%

  3. Old Earth with death before sin occurred

    11 vote(s)
    11.5%

  4. Theistic Evolution -- animals evolved until God decided to put a soul in one.

    3 vote(s)
    3.1%

  5. Evolution -- absolutely no need for any supernatural causes.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Top Posters
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  1. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Do you believe in miracles? I know that sounds like a sappy Hallmark card or even sappier movie, but I am serious: Do you believe God performed miracles in the OT and that Jesus healed miraculously and calmed the storm miraculously by rebuking the sea and wind, among other things ascribed to him as "signs and wonders"?
     
    #21 Marcia, Dec 31, 2004
  2. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Is that physical death or spiritual death?
    </font>[/QUOTE]Both. Spiritual death was immediate; physical death came later.

    No, I don't think plants died before Adam. I think Adam and Eve ate plants, but that the plants did not die naturally from decay or in their life and death cycle as they do now. Same with the bugs. Don't know about the mic. organisms.
     
    #22 Marcia, Dec 31, 2004
  3. lchemist

    lchemist Member
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    No contradiction at all, human death came through sin, no other species'.

    Blessings,

    Luis
     
    #23 lchemist, Dec 31, 2004
  4. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    No contradiction at all, human death came through sin, no other species'.

    Blessings,

    Luis     </font>[/QUOTE]What about the corruption and subsequent decay of the earth from man's sin, which would include the plants (and by implication, animals and such?). This is clear from Gen 3.17, 18 and from Romans 8.20.
     
    #24 Marcia, Dec 31, 2004
  5. lchemist

    lchemist Member
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    Well on Gen 3: 17-18 God courses the ground because of man, so his work won't be easy.
    Rom 8:20 speaks of the creation being subjected to frustration and decay, but does not say there was no animal or plant death before Adam's sin.

    Blessings,

    Luis
     
    #25 lchemist, Dec 31, 2004
  6. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    It does not have to say there was no animal or plant death before Adam's sin; it's a natural and logical conclusion of the fact the ground and earth were cursed because of man's sin. The earth was subject to decay and corruption after man's sin, not before. So it is totally illogical and rather poor hermeneneutics to say there was any kind of death for animals before man's sin.

    Not only that, what do you do about the fact that God created everything "good"? How could it be good if there was death -- especially since death is called the "last enemy" in the NT and is thrown into the lake of fire. God did not create death, nor a world subject to it.
     
    #26 Marcia, Jan 1, 2005
  7. lchemist

    lchemist Member
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    Hi Marcia:

    Your "natural and logical conclusion" is just that, your conclusion, it is not what the biblical text says,

    As I see it you are mixing thing up, obviously Romans is dealing with the consecuences of sin, Paul was not concerned with the history of the universe or with biological history.

    You are assuming that since the wages of sin is death, no physical death at all could be considered part of the goodness of God's creation.

    I am going one step further when I say that even now, with all the sin in our world, God's creation is very good indeed.

    In Christ,

    Luis
     
    #27 lchemist, Jan 1, 2005
  8. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    God went to great extent to tell us about a literal 6-day creation ex nihilo. Jesus verified the authenticity of Moses.

    Pretty clear to me, so never been an issue.

    (and the only gap I have is in the spark plugs of my Mercury)
     
    #28 Dr. Bob, Jan 1, 2005
  9. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    So, your gap theory is wrong. Yes, it will cause your car to miss. (Right about the time you hit the gas to beat that yellow light.) [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] Then your wife will have the last laugh, and we can't have that. ;)
     
    #29 Phillip, Jan 1, 2005
  10. lchemist

    lchemist Member
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    Dear Bob:

    There are no problems with the text of Genesis as God's Word.

    Only its interpretation in light of what we know, has been subject to debate.

    I do not see in Genesis an explanation of God'd method of creation, that is open to scientific investigation.

    In Him,

    Luis
     
    #30 lchemist, Jan 1, 2005
  11. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    I get SOOOO tired of the statement "in light of what we know"

    Just WHAT DO you know, Luis? :confused:
     
    #31 Phillip, Jan 1, 2005
  12. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    But the Bible supports my conclusion and not yours at all.

    Sin corrupted God's creation. It was originally good and there is still goodness and beauty there, but not the way it was created. How can death be an enemy if it was part of God's creation?
     
    #32 Marcia, Jan 1, 2005
  13. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Young earth. The more I read about Creation science the more sense it makes.
     
    #33 Plain Old Bill, Jan 1, 2005
  14. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I interpret it the way Jesus did. He believed what Moses wrote. So do I.

    Now I can allegorize it and mythisize it and spiritualize it, or I can believe it the way it was writte.

    Genesis one doesn't start with "once upon a time". It is statement of fact. Words have meaning, even if post-modernity denies it.
     
    #34 Dr. Bob, Jan 1, 2005
  15. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Haaa, Boy you scared me. I read your post quickly and thought you said "The more I read about "Christian Science".

    I thought you were changing denominations (or cults) on us. :D
     
    #35 Phillip, Jan 1, 2005
  16. lchemist

    lchemist Member
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    Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior, beyond that not much really.

    Everyone is influenced by his or her upbringing, education, culture, circunstances, etc. when we approach God's Word we are led by the Holy Spirit to be more like Jesus.

    Blessings,

    Luis
     
    #36 lchemist, Jan 1, 2005
  17. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    I question whether or not you have even read the Bible--Genesis in particular:

    Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    Gen. 2:21 ¶ And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
    22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
    23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

    Oh, about "microscopic organisms". Bacteria are plants. Virus and phages are more plant than animal, but probably not either (really) since they cannot reproduce without a host cell to do their replication for them.

    Besides, if there was no death before sin, then I guess if Adam stepped on a roach, it stood up, shook itself off, and went on its way.

    Do I believe in YOUR science book of theories, or do I believe in the Word of God? :D

    Dr. Bob puts it quite well, in his post above.
     
    #37 Phillip, Jan 1, 2005
  18. lchemist

    lchemist Member
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    Dear Bob:

    I believe it too, we may differ in our interpretation

    I believe the way it was written too.

    Actually you are always chosing how to read it, if you chose to read it as an historical account you have nade that choice.

    Yes they do.

    Blessings,

    Luis
     
    #38 lchemist, Jan 1, 2005
  19. lchemist

    lchemist Member
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    But the Bible supports my conclusion and not yours at all.</font>[/QUOTE]That is where you and I disagree.

    Sin corrupted God's creation. It was originally good and there is still goodness and beauty there, but not the way it was created. How can death be an enemy if it was part of God's creation?     [/QUOTE]

    Death is an enemy of man because we are created in God's image, we are the only creatures in which He breathed his Spirit, we are more than just matter, that is why for us death is an enemy.

    In Christ,

    Luis
     
    #39 lchemist, Jan 1, 2005
  20. El_Guero

    El_Guero New Member

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    Luis, Welcome brother ...

    Phillip - why the short List?

    You forgot the correct answer ... 7 days (YEC) With an openess to God's intent in the word day.

    Wayne
     
    #40 El_Guero, Jan 1, 2005
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