Evolutionary Propoganda - A True Story

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Mark Osgatharp, Oct 9, 2003.

  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    An aquaintance of mine, while on a recent vacation in Arizona, took a guided tour at the Grand Canyon, along with his wife. When the tour guide started his line about how the canyon had evolved over millions of years, this man said something to this effect:

    "We are Christian people and we paid money to take this tour and we don't care anything about hearing about evolution. I already know how this canyon got here - God put it here!"

    Would to God that more men would take such a public stand for the Lord!

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  2. NeilUnreal

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    Was the tour guide a Christian?

    -Neil
     
  3. Mark Osgatharp

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    I have no idea whether the man claimed to be a Christian or not. Personally, I don't believe it's possible for a Christian to believe in evolution, although I know there are many people who claim to be both Christians and evolutionists.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  4. Paul of Eugene

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    OK Mark, I accepted Christ about the age of 9 before I had hardly even heard about evolution. I have tithed all my life, attended church all my life, currently serve as pianist and deacon and sunday school director, and am a member of the faith team at our church. I accept the findings of science regarding evolution. Do you question my Christianity?
     
  5. ScottEmerson

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    Wow. Another sterling statement. I believe that man has grown taller on average over the last 1,000 years, as we can see such evolution occurring from records and from looking at the skeletons.

    I must not be saved either.
     
  6. Mark Osgatharp

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    Paul,

    That would depend on how you are defining "the findings of science regarding evolution." If you are using that term in the commonly accepted sense of accepting the theory that man evolved from lower species of animals and that the creation is a product of millions of years of evolution, then on that basis I would question the authenticity of your Christian profession.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  7. ScottEmerson

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    I absolutely believe your Christianity. You're professing it, and it appears to me that you are living it out. I cannot find anything in the Scriptures that would say that (whether you are right or wrong) your view would, in fact, negate your belief in Christ and His atonement.

    In fact, personally, it would be far easier to question the witness of a person who was constantly and beligerantly going around and saying that all these people aren't saved because they don't believe as he does than question the witness of a person who believes in the theory of evolution. Not that I'm doing that, but it would, indeed, be easier.
     
  8. Brett

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    I absolutely believe your Christianity. You're professing it, and it appears to me that you are living it out. I cannot find anything in the Scriptures that would say that (whether you are right or wrong) your view would, in fact, negate your belief in Christ and His atonement.

    In fact, personally, it would be far easier to question the witness of a person who was constantly and beligerantly going around and saying that all these people aren't saved because they don't believe as he does than question the witness of a person who believes in the theory of evolution. Not that I'm doing that, but it would, indeed, be easier.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I would be easiest of all to say that Mark is spiritually misguided. There is no biblical evidence that being saved has something to do with anything else but repentance, and a belief that Jesus Christ died for our sins. There are no verses supporting the notion that errancy in our biblical interpretation will somehow damn us, notwithstanding our repentance and our belief in Christ.

    Without getting into another debate, like that in the Current Events forum, the evidence for evolution is so convincing that even many of those who would have the predisposition to believe otherwise - IE, pretty much everyone here - do believe in evolution, because the evidence for it is simply overwhelming.
     
  9. john6:63

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    I haven’t been on my evolutionary kick lately; it’s to the point IMO, that it’s a waste of time debating the obvious. My wife and I are finishing a yearlong Bible study at a local church and out of the 18 that attend; all believe the entire creative process took place in six twenty-four-hour days as stated in Genesis, but a few believed the earth is millions of years old. How can one believe in a literal Genesis and still believe the earth is millions of years old? Their response is, “that’s what I was taught in HS science class.”

    Once we studied a little closer the genealogies that are laid out in the Bible, they quickly realized that someone is lying. Either God or Science has gotten it wrong, and since Paul wrote in Titus that God which cannot lie, I have to agree that fallible science has gotten it wrong.

    On a sad note, I won’t mention any monikers, but someone who used to post in the ‘Creation/Evolution’ forum, who supported evolution and discredited Genesis as history, I’ve noticed him in various ‘atheistic’ and ‘freethinker’ message boards. I emailed him, b/c I haven’t seen him on the BB in awhile, and he responded back that he had lost his faith in the Word of God. The evidences of fallible man were just too convincing and it convinced him into an agnostic/atheist belief.

    A few here may have a strong faith in God and still able to continue their walk with faith in God, even though they believe fallible mans theories on the origin of man; but Peter in Romans 14:21 says that one must not do anything that will cause thy brother to stumble or make weak or even offend. So when someone is posting his or her Evolutionary Propaganda, a weaker brother or sister may stumble and fall right into an agnostic/atheist belief…the devil's thinking this is way to easy...
     
  10. NeilUnreal

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    The reason I asked "Was the tour guide a Christian?" was more about priorities. There are a thousand questions like this that should have been of much more concern than evolution. For example, "Was anyone sick or troubled?," "Was the tour guide depressed or angry and in need of a kind word?" Any one of a myriad such questions would have been infinitely more important to the human and spirital condition of those present.

    I wasn't there and I can't say what actually happened, so I have to take the case as presented. It sounds like one of taking undo umbrage at something minor that the participants should have expected would occur. Anti-evolution Christians should expect to hear about science on a tour of the natural wonders; athiests should expect to hear about religion on a trip to the Sistine Chapel.

    People could have been left with the impression: "Those folks were really nice. They were polite, friendly, and happy. If that's what Christians are like, maybe I need to investigate further."

    Instead, they may have been left with the impression: "Christians really like to act self-righteous. They interrupted the tour and spoiled the experience for me -- andI paid good money for this tour! Of course a tour is going of the Grand Canyon is going to talk about evolution, what did they expect."

    -Neil
     
  11. Brett

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    The thing you have to remember is that God is not only the author of the bible; He is also the "author" of our universe! In that regard, since the evidence for evolution is so strong, one is in the sticky predicament - did God lie in the bible, or did God lie with the Earthly physical evidence? Knowing that in the future, people might interpret achaeological and biological evidence, why would God choose to create such evidence, especially if it might lead some people away from God?

    Since God cannot lie, either we are interpreting the Bible wrong, or we are interpreting the physical evidence wrong. Given the strength of the physical evidence, I'd say that a literal intepretation of Genesis is silly.

    And as a comment regarding the guy in the Grand Canyon, it's pretty pathetic that A) he is ignorant enough to equate evolution with an old Earth, and B) cannot tolerate hearing views that contradict his own. :rolleyes:
     
  12. Taufgesinnter

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    Wow. Another sterling statement. I believe that man has grown taller on average over the last 1,000 years, as we can see such evolution occurring from records and from looking at the skeletons.

    I must not be saved either.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Of course, that isn't evolution (random mutations supported by natural selection pressures) but environmental tempering of existing genes' expression such as through improved nutrition--the same effect can be seen comparing first-generation Asian-Americans' height to that of their immigrant parents. It is not evolution.

    Likewise, the drastic changes in life expectancy (50% cohort survival rate) over the past two millennia from the 30s and 40s to 70s and 80s. This is due to improved environmental conditions such as nutrition, sanitation, and medicine, but the existing genetically predetermined life span of 110-120 years and Hayflick limit have not changed at all. No evolution there either.

    We've had the time in bacteriology to study thousands of generations of bacteria. Sure, they develop resistance to certain antibiotics, that sort of thing, but in studying billions of bacteria for thousands of generations, we've never seen bacteria evolve from one genus to another--no macroevolution even there.
     
  13. Brett

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  14. Tanker

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    Christians would do well to avoid the type of extremely hostile attitude towards evolution that was described in the opening post of this thread. Rightly or wrongly, evolution is accepted by better than 95% of the scientific community and attempts to describe evolution as silly or wicked appear to be simply ignorant to members of the scientific community. I think one of the marks of an educated person is the ability to discuss all points of view in a rational and unemotional way. Too many fundamentalists are extremely emotional when it comes to evolution, an attitude that gets in the way of rational thought.

    Incidentally, unless the tour mentioned in the first post was a tour by religious group, then the person who objected to the mention of evolution was making a big assumption in assuming that the whole group objected to evolutionary theory. It is well known that at least half of the public accepts the mainstream scientific viewpoint. And those who object with as much hostility as the person mentioned must be a small fraction of the population, perhaps five percent or so. Even if the tour group consisted of a religious group, it is still a big assumption, since most religious people accept evolution.

    [ October 10, 2003, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Tanker ]
     
  15. Trotter

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    Evolution is a religion unto itself, and it is one thatis spoonfed to our children as "the truth, and the only truth" as far as our world goes. True, most Americans accept evolution as fact, and that is to our shame. We as a people have become so lazy that we won't even look to see if that is the only plausible answer, and just accept what is given to us. Our own government has all but banned the name of God in our schools, and evolution has rushed in to fill the vacuum of truth that was left.

    I know the theory of evolution quite well. And, yes, I said theory because that is what it is. A theory that has to be revamped every time a new discovery is made of something that doesn't "fit" in man's self-glorifying religion. And it is a religion, for it requires faith in a supposed chain of events that are even more outragious than the claims we cling to as Christians.

    I was once an evolutionist. Then I net God. I then became a Christian evolutionist. Then God had to get my attention and show me that His word is His word, and not man's, that His word was before creation and tells the story of the same. I am now a Christian who believes and agrees with what God has revealed through His word...that He made all of creation in six days of 24 hours each. For if the foundation (Genesis) is flawed, the whole building (the Bible) is unstable and unsafe.

    Where do you stand?

    In Christ,
    Trotter
     
  16. Major B

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  17. Tanker

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    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;In the year 1900, the French Academy of Science listed 99 "facts" that disproved the Bible, and science has since discredited every single "fact."&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

    Sounds like an urban myth that has been copied 200 times on the Internet. I bet your source is NOT the French Academy of Science, is it?
     
  18. Tanker

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    &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;Just in my lifetime, chemistry has gone from valence bonding theory to molecular bonding theory;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

    I think you are laboring under a misunderstanding here.
     
  19. Mark Osgatharp

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    It is my observation that whenever modernists are shown to be full of baloney they resort to the "you just don't understand" defence.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  20. Travelsong

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    I believe the universe is very old, yet I do not believe Genesis is flawed. Can you give me one single doctrinal reason why I should be compelled to interpret the Genesis creation account as a literal six 24 hour days?
     

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