Exegesis of Ephesians 2:8&9

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Corry Cox, Apr 9, 2004.

  1. Corry Cox

    Corry Cox
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    Read in a few post the other day that Faith was a "work". I would like for you guys to start a "running exegesis" of the following focusing on the idea of faith as a "work".

    Ephesians 2
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. (KJV)


    Ephesians 2
    8 For (1) by grace you have been saved (2) through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is (3) the gift of God;
    9 (4) not as a result of works, so that (5) no one may boast. (NASB)

    Ephesians 2
    8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9not by works, so that no one can boast. (NIV)
     
  2. John Gilmore

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    If faith were a work, then the text would say we are saved on account of faith or in view of a foreseen faith. Faith is the gracious gift of Holy Spirit received through no merit, work, or worthiness in man.
     
  3. Corry Cox

    Corry Cox
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    Is the gift grace or faith or both?

    <><
    cbc
     
  4. Sularis

    Sularis
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    For by grace - are ye saved - through faith - and that not of yourselves - it is the gift of God

    not of works lest any man should boast

    The gift is salvation which is the showing of grace unto us that our faith is accepted - and since I dont see anyone doing that many miracles our faith is not something of which we should be boasting

    Faith/Belief does not save us - it cant - it is God's grace that allows us to be saved
     
  5. KJV Warrior

    KJV Warrior
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    Sularis, I think that you need to re-read Romans 10:9 and ten. The Word of God plainly says that "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt BELIEVE in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be SAVED. For with the heart man BELIEVETH unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Yes, God is a gracious God, however, a person must have faith before God will save him or her. The Bible says in Hebrews 11:6, " But without FAITH it is impossible to please him, for he that cometh to God must BELIEVE that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. If you don't seek God by FAITH He will not reward you.
     
  6. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
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    The gift of faith is the means whereby we receive the gift of grace.
     
  7. Corry Cox

    Corry Cox
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    So essentially both are gifts from the Father.
    So is faith a work? If so by whom?

    <><

    cbc
     
  8. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
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    So essentially both are gifts from the Father.
    So is faith a work? If so by whom?

    <><

    cbc
    </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, by the Holy Spirit; No, not by man.
     
  9. KJV Warrior

    KJV Warrior
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    So essentially both are gifts from the Father.
    So is faith a work? If so by whom?

    &lt;&gt;&lt;

    cbc
    </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, by the Holy Spirit; No, not by man.
    </font>[/QUOTE]If faith is a gift from God, then why would it be a "work" of the Holy Ghost. The same goes for salvation, it is a gift from God, not of works
     
  10. KJV Warrior

    KJV Warrior
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    Have either of you read James 2:14-26? If not, here you go. "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect. And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
    For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."
     
  11. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore
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    James 2:14-26 does not contradict Eph 2:8,9. Good works are the evidence of faith. Where good works exist, faith also exists. So works indirectly justify by providing evidence of faith. But works do not directly justify because we are justified through faith of Christ alone.
     
  12. Corry Cox

    Corry Cox
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    KJV Warrior
    Define "work" for me please.

    &lt;&gt;&lt;

    cbc
     
  13. ILUVLIGHT

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    Hi Cory;
    This is where faith comes from.

    "Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

    The reason is, if we never hear about Jesus there is no way we can have faith in him . Our faith comes from Hearing the gospel. How some can claim that faith is a gift from the holy spirit like grace is, confuses me as well. In a sense you could call it a gift from God because He gave us His word, but not in the way that grace is.
    When we hear about something we either believe it or not it is a decision that comes from us. Faith is what we believe to be true. we are not made to have faith in something we either accept it as truth or we don't.
    May God bless You;
    Mike
     
  14. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
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    Hi KJV warrior;
    Do we have a contradiction here or is only a difference of opinion.
    Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
    May God Bless You;
    Mike
     
  15. ILUVLIGHT

    ILUVLIGHT
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    Hi Again Cory;
    If I may define the meaning of "work" for the Lord. "Work" is Labour for The cause of Christ.
    Faith is what you believe to be true and is not a work. It is something you believe to be true. I have never had to work at faith but my faith has caused me to work for the Lord.
    May God Bless You;
    Mike
     
  16. BrotherJoe

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    Brother John and Brother Mike,

    YOU (BROTHER JOHN): But works do not directly justify because we are justified through faith of Christ alone.

    ME: The Bible says

    1) "Ye see then how that BY WORKS A MAN IS JUSTIFIED, and not by faith only" (James 2:24)
    BUT IT ALSO SAYS
    2)"Knowing that a man is not JUSTIFIED BY the works of the law, but by the FAITH of Jesus Christ" (Galations 2:16)
    BUT IT ALSO SAYS
    3)"Much more then, being now JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

    Which is it? Works, faith, or the blood that justifies? ***To avoid contradiction, the ONLY logical conclusion is that each usage of the word "justified" has a different meaning for each verse above. That is, we are eternally, legally, and actually justified BY CHRISTS BLOOD. We are justified by faith in the sense that this is how we become experimentally aware in our minds of the legal justification that has already occured by Christ's blood. It is a justification in our human experience, and a very real one at that. And finally, we are justified by works in the sense that works are what manifest our justification to others. It is how one knows we are justified.*** I find any other explanation of the following three verses always results in contradiction. If you desire to read more on this I recommend the following link by Primitive Baptist Elder Michael Gowens entitled Temporal Salvation. The article taught me a lot. http://www.sovgrace.net/TimeSalvation.pdf

    God bless you my fellow brothers,

    Brother Joe
     
  17. BrotherJoe

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    Brother Mike,

    YOU: The reason is, if we never hear about Jesus there is no way we can have faith in him . Our faith comes from Hearing the gospel. How some can claim that faith is a gift from the holy spirit like grace is, confuses me as well

    ME: Brother Mike. Do you believe John the Baptist had faith he was yet an unborn infant, " filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."? (Luke 1:15) If he did have the faith, how else would have gotten, but from the Holy Ghost?

    Saved by grace,

    Brother Joe
     
  18. KJV Warrior

    KJV Warrior
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  19. KJV Warrior

    KJV Warrior
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    Brother Joe,

    Just out of curiousity, what is a primitve Baptist? never heard of it before.
     
  20. pinoybaptist

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    by KJV Warrior:
    Here is a thread about Primitive Baptists:

    Click Here
     

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