Exodus 32:1-20 What is going on here?

Discussion in 'All Other Discussions' started by Crabtownboy, Nov 17, 2011.

  1. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,619
    Likes Received:
    158
    What is going on here with God. God really does not come across well in this passage IMHO.

    In verse 7 God calls the people "your people" or Moses' people, not my people.

    In verse 9-10 God wants to destroy them. He wants to turn his back on his children and by default on Moses.

    In verses 11-14 Moses argues with God, correcting God and God changes his mind. How is it that Moses had a better more compassionate view of people than God?

    How is it that God, by changing his mind, shows that his first reaction was a wrong reaction?

    How is it that a man, Moses, can and did correct God?



     
  2. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    This will come across as mean spirited, but there's no other way to say it. Your "IMHO" about God in this passage isn't humble. Who are you to pass judgment on God's actions and attitudes?
     
  3. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    And it was needful. Anyone who is willing to say such a thing has serious issues.
     
  4. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    CTB, I liken this passage to episodes with my kids (such as when they were playing on the roof!) when I say "I'm gonna kill them myself and then I won't have to worry about them dying from a fall!" (three story fall in back, two stories in front!)

    Am I really going to kill them? Of course not. It's a show of anger. A blowing off of steam. Look at how God begins his speech: "Go down". If He was really going to destroy the whole bunch of them except Moses, He wouldn't have told Moses to get on down the mountain back to them.

    I believe we often don't want to attribute to God negative emotions, but if we are made i n His image, then our emotions must reflect those of our Creator. Why we would think that He never gets irritated or aggravated and has to talk Himself out of destroying the whole lot of us, after He's already proven He's capable, is beyond me.
     
  5. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,619
    Likes Received:
    158
    Mean spirited? I think not. I am trying to understand the passage and what was going on between God and Moses. How is it that Moses seems more compassionate than God?

    Who am I? A child of God trying to understand.

    Now, can you help here or are you afraid to address the issue? Many people mistakenly think God keep a scorecard and does not like people honestly trying to understand and asking questions. I believe God welcomes questions.

     
  6. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said:
    Job 38:2 "Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
    Job 38:3 Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me.
    Job 38:4 "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell me, if you have understanding.
    Job 38:5 Who determined its measurements--surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it?
    Job 38:6 On what were its bases sunk, or who laid its cornerstone,
    Job 38:7 when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
    Job 38:8 "Or who shut in the sea with doors when it burst out from the womb,
    Job 38:9 when I made clouds its garment and thick darkness its swaddling band,
    Job 38:10 and prescribed limits for it and set bars and doors,
    Job 38:11 and said, 'Thus far shall you come, and no farther, and here shall your proud waves be stayed'?
    Job 38:12 "Have you commanded the morning since your days began, and caused the dawn to know its place,
    Job 38:13 that it might take hold of the skirts of the earth, and the wicked be shaken out of it?
    Job 38:14 It is changed like clay under the seal, and its features stand out like a garment.
    Job 38:15 From the wicked their light is withheld, and their uplifted arm is broken.
    Job 38:16 "Have you entered into the springs of the sea, or walked in the recesses of the deep?
    Job 38:17 Have the gates of death been revealed to you, or have you seen the gates of deep darkness?
    Job 38:18 Have you comprehended the expanse of the earth? Declare, if you know all this.
    Job 38:19 "Where is the way to the dwelling of light, and where is the place of darkness,
    Job 38:20 that you may take it to its territory and that you may discern the paths to its home?
    Job 38:21 You know, for you were born then, and the number of your days is great!
    Job 38:22 "Have you entered the storehouses of the snow, or have you seen the storehouses of the hail,
    Job 38:23 which I have reserved for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war?
    Job 38:24 What is the way to the place where the light is distributed, or where the east wind is scattered upon the earth?
    Job 38:25 "Who has cleft a channel for the torrents of rain and a way for the thunderbolt,
    Job 38:26 to bring rain on a land where no man is, on the desert in which there is no man,
    Job 38:27 to satisfy the waste and desolate land, and to make the ground sprout with grass?
    Job 38:28 "Has the rain a father, or who has begotten the drops of dew?
    Job 38:29 From whose womb did the ice come forth, and who has given birth to the frost of heaven?
    Job 38:30 The waters become hard like stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
    Job 38:31 "Can you bind the chains of the Pleiades or loose the cords of Orion?
    Job 38:32 Can you lead forth the Mazzaroth in their season, or can you guide the Bear with its children?
    Job 38:33 Do you know the ordinances of the heavens? Can you establish their rule on the earth?
    Job 38:34 "Can you lift up your voice to the clouds, that a flood of waters may cover you?
    Job 38:35 Can you send forth lightnings, that they may go and say to you, 'Here we are'?
    Job 38:36 Who has put wisdom in the inward parts or given understanding to the mind?
    Job 38:37 Who can number the clouds by wisdom? Or who can tilt the waterskins of the heavens,
    Job 38:38 when the dust runs into a mass and the clods stick fast together?
    Job 38:39 "Can you hunt the prey for the lion, or satisfy the appetite of the young lions,
    Job 38:40 when they crouch in their dens or lie in wait in their thicket?
    Job 38:41 Who provides for the raven its prey, when its young ones cry to God for help, and wander about for lack of food?
     
  7. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think Mandym means we aren't allowed to ask questions about God's motives.
     
  8. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am not afraid to address the question. I am also not afraid to call you on your idea of deciding who sounds more compassionate? Or how God comes off as sounding.

    God does indeed keep a score card. God is not afraid to answer ligeitimate questions.. but you have already decided that God is coming off sounding bad and that Moses is more compassionate than God.

    You're not asking questions, you are making statements about who God is and how that you can decide who is more compassionate or how God does his public relations.

    I stand with what Mandy quoted from God's Word.
     
  9. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    Really did you see where I have quoted a question?
     
  10. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    7,152
    Likes Received:
    0
    Looks like ya quoted 21 of them.

    :laugh:
     
  11. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,619
    Likes Received:
    158
    In the passage in the OP who, in your opinion, sounds more compassionate, God or Moses?

    It is a legitimate question? God is not afraid of any question ... nor should you be. Also you should not be afraid of God. You say he keeps score. If so that negates Christ's death and resurrection on the cross.

    Are you afraid to say that Moses appears more compassionate in this passage?

    But that did not answer my question.
     
  12. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    But it does address the premise of your question which is ungodly and evil.
     
  13. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,619
    Likes Received:
    158
    You are using too broad a paint brush. I was not questioning God in general. I was addressing a specific scripture. Why did God respond as he did to Moses?

    Why didn't Moses simply say, "OK, you are God destroy them."?

    Why did God change his mind?

    I can think of several answers but I want to hear others rational reply on this passage.
     
  14. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0

    Sure you did
     
  15. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,619
    Likes Received:
    158
    Come on, be rational. In the title I gave the scripture reference and asked "What is going on here." That is pretty specific to that one scripture.

    So, in your opinion, what was going on?
     
  16. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0

    When you do not like responses to your posts you accuse others of being irrational. Just so you know it looks silly.

    You made clear the premise of your question. Right now you look a lot like many politicians who try to back peddle once they have been called on their junk.
     
  17. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,619
    Likes Received:
    158

    You have yet to address the question posed in the OP.
    What was going on?
    Why did God change his mind?
    Why did Moses have to point out that these were his [God's] people?
    Why did God respond as he did?
     
  18. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    4,439
    Likes Received:
    0
    You added the following phrase to my statement:
    I never stated this. You did. Now you have God's reply not sounding very Christ-like.

    Your problem is not with asking questions. My problem is not with you asking questions. You make statements Like God's reply doesn't answer Job's question. God must have thought that it did. You have God and Christ in opposition to each other.

    We can't discuss anything because you and I have no common ground on which to argue. I believe the Bible is entirely and inerrantly God's Word. Paul doesn't contradict Jesus. Jesus doesn't contradict God in Job or anywhere else. God could never be un-Christ-like since Christ and the Father are one.
     
  19. mandym

    mandym
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2011
    Messages:
    4,991
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is right. Your premise is evil and should be shot down. Shame on you
     
  20. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just sometimes, God must speak in terms that man can understand. We take the whole of scripture to understand God and not one isolated passage.

    The way God addressed the issue at hand; it developedthe faith and pariotism of the Hebrew leader, and excited serious alarm in the people.

    A simple lesson and certainly no change in the eternal plan of God.

    Just my opinion, and that of many biblical students down through the years.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     

Share This Page

Loading...