Expect Revival in Texas

Discussion in 'Baptist Colleges / Seminaries' started by KPBAP, Sep 17, 2003.

  1. KPBAP

    KPBAP
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    FORT WORTH, Texas (BP) – Paige Patterson believes that a seminary president should never presume that all of his students and faculty members are actually Christians. In fact, he's learned through personal experience that you can never make such an assumption.

    Patterson preached an avowedly evangelistic sermon before more than 1,500 faculty, staff and students during Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary's annual convocation chapel Aug. 26. While he acknowledged that many people would consider preaching salvation to a seminary congregation somewhat unorthodox, he said that he didn't want take anyone's salvation for granted.

    “God may have called you here to seminary so that you can meet the Savior,” Patterson said.

    Prior to Patterson's sermon, five new members of the seminary faculty signed the institution's faculty roster, a symbolic act signifying the professors' agreement with the Baptist Faith and Message 2000. All Southwestern faculty members agree to teach “according and not contrary to” the faith statement before they are employed.

    Patterson's sermon, drawn from 2 Corinthians 7:8-11, emphasized the importance of repentance for salvation through Jesus Christ. He repeatedly encouraged the seminary family to accept Christ if they had never done so, at one point recalling a situation he encountered when he was president of the Criswell College in Dallas, Texas. Patterson said a professor attempted to resign after receiving Christ as his Savior, but that he refused to let him quit.

    “I asked him, ‘Did it ever occur to you that I would rather have a saved Old Testament professor than a lost one?”

    Patterson also encouraged seminarians who might have been embarrassed to admit that they had never accepted Christ to come forward because they would “never find a more loving, joyful response than the one you will receive here.”
    “There is a vast difference between godly sorrow and the sorrow of this world,” Patterson said. “This world's sorrow leads to death, but the moment you repent of your sins in godly sorrow, your sorrow is replaced by joy.”

    Patterson said he hoped through his message to set the agenda for how and what those affiliated with Southwestern communicate to the rest of the Fort Worth community.

    “You interact with hundreds of people who are hurting and broken-hearted every day, and they need the Lord,” Patterson said. “That's what we're here for.”

    Among the new faculty members to sign the Southwestern's faculty roster were Elias Moitinho, Malcolm Yarnell, Greg Welty and John Moldovan. Moitinho, assistant professor of psychology and counseling, is the seminary's first Brazilian-born faculty member. Moldovan, associate professor of evangelism and intercultural studies, was once imprisoned for his faith and is the seminary's first faculty member from the former Soviet bloc.

    Dorothy Patterson, who was elected by trustees June 24 as professor of theology in women's studies at Southwestern, also signed the faculty roster.

    Early in the chapel service, Patterson also asked all new students in attendance stand and pronounced them “Southwesterners” according to a tradition set forth by Robert Naylor, the seminary's fifth president. “You would sooner be dead than to dishonor the name of Southwestern,” Patterson told the new seminarians.
     
  2. Baptist Believer

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    Here’s something I can agree with Paige Patterson about… More often than we like to admit, religious people (not true Christians) sense a working of the Spirit in their life and assume that they are being called to vocational ministry – since they think (and everyone else automatically assumes) they’re already ‘saved’ – and they end up in seminary and then out on the church field without knowing the Savior. They preach dead religion instead of Christ and they and the churches are much poorer for it.

    I’ve personally known of at least five situations like this and suspected a few others.

    While I don’t think God characteristically calls people to seminary to meet Christ, I certainly think that God might do it if that’s what it is going to take to get their attention…

    Let’s see… they had the updated Baptist Faith and Message ’98 , they now have Baptist Faith and Message 2000… when are they going to release Baptist Faith and Message XP in both “Professional” and “Home User” editions? [​IMG]

    I certainly hope so.

    God is starting to do something amazing in our church (and we pray) in Fort Worth. God is calling people in our congregation to pray and to experience the fullness of His life in us.

    I hope and pray that the seminary community will also be included in this work of God so that our nation and our world can be changed by the power of God in our lives.

    Perhaps Patterson may be hearing the same calling. [​IMG]
     
  3. Gunther

    Gunther
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    KPBAP, I hope you are right. I welcome the change of presidents. Patterson has come home to where he always should have been. I think with his presense there, the dividing line will be all the more obvious to the people within Texas.

    Although the state is generally conservative (if you compare it with Harvard and Princeton), many people disguise themselves as conservative. For example, SWBTS had to dump two of its profs because they were inept and would probably feel right at home in the BGCT. One was a woman, her name escapes me right now. They were not people of integrity, as they did not clearly hold to the BFM2000. I cheered the decision of the trustees to drop that dead weight.
     
  4. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C
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    Gunther FYI

    SWBTS did not "dump" two professors because they were inept. Dr. Karen Bullock is teaching men and women history this academic year. She was denied tenure for purely political reasons, but is much beloved by faculty and students alike. Before you go casting aspersions and spreading false gossip, please get your facts straight.

    I have heard that Dr. Patterson is trying to keep Dr. Bullock at SWBTS, although in a capacity that would not have her teaching men in the school of theology.

    Dr bullock is very much at home in the conservative environment of SWBTS and has been since she was hired by Dr, Hemphill - a conservative president who was hired by conservative trustees after the (so called) conservative resurgence.

    Dr. Stookey is also continuing to teach this academic year at SWBTS.

    They each signed the BFM 2000, and taught accordingly. If you have any information otherwise I challenge you to show it. The fact is you cannot!
     
  5. Jimmy C

    Jimmy C
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    Gunther says:

    KPBAP, I hope you are right. I welcome the change of presidents. Patterson has come home to where he always should have been. I think with his presense there, the dividing line will be all the more obvious to the people within Texas.

    Although the state is generally conservative (if you compare it with Harvard and Princeton), many people disguise themselves as conservative. For example, SWBTS had to dump two of its profs because they were inept and would probably feel right at home in the BGCT. One was a woman, her name escapes me right now. They were not people of integrity, as they did not clearly hold to the BFM2000. I cheered the decision of the trustees to drop that dead weight.

    Jimmy:

    One more promlem you have with the truth in your post gunther is the last statement. The trustees had nothing to do with not granting tenure to Bullock and Stookey. The matter of tenure did not even come before the trustees, a one man committe decided not to present them for tenure. there are many trustees who are big fans of both Bullock and Stookey, I think that if the tenure question had been presented to them there would have been some very interesting conversation.

    as to integrity, after reading your post I can see that integrity is still a work in progress for you.
     
  6. Baptist Believer

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    I think you are right. More churches will get off the fence, or even change sides, when they see things up close. Of course, I fully expect it to be a positive thing for the BGCT.

    I don’t understand that statement at all. Texas is a state and Harvard and Princeton are universities… I suspect you are trying to say something negative about the theological condition of Texas Baptists, but your comparison makes no sense.

    It’s pretty obvious that you don’t have a clue to what you are talking about. It would be a good idea to actually know something before making disparaging statements about others. I happen to know one of the two professors who did not receive tenure and your characterization of the issues bears absolutely no relation to the truth. Furthermore, Karen Bullock was respected by faculty and students as an eminently-qualified and gifted teacher. Even Ken Hemphill's wife expressed great remorse over that decision because she had been so enriched by Ms. Bullock. (For the record, Ken Hemphill was the one who brought her onto the faculty in 1995.)

    Those who malign other brothers and sisters in Christ without regard to the truth are doing the work of the evil one. If you are truly a Christian, you should feel the need to repent of your actions.

    As for integrity, the former president of Southwestern Seminary, Ken Hemphill, candidly admitted to me in a private meeting in his office (March 1995) that the seminary lied about many of the details regarding the firing of Dr. Russell Dilday because they believed that the CBF and the ‘liberals’ were trying to destroy the school. Of course he wasn’t telling me anything new since those of us who were connected to the seminary at the time saw everything unfold before our eyes. What Baptist Press and the trustees claimed did not match what was done.

    For example, it was widely claimed by the trustees that the trustees changed the locks on Dr. Dilday’s office while they were in the meeting to fire him because they wanted to keep the students from “looting” the office. Not only is that terribly insulting to the students of Southwestern, but I don’t recall getting a key to the President’s office at registration! :rolleyes: If they wanted to keep malicious students out of his office, they all they needed to do was lock the door!

    If the so-called “conservative resurgence” folks were doing the work of God, they wouldn’t have to lie about so much of what they do.
     
  7. Gunther

    Gunther
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    Based on the information I had regarding the two profs, I made my post.

    Now, if any of it is truly in error, I do apologize for misrepresenting the facts.

    I do seem to remember that the woman delivered a "lesson" in which some of her comments came across anti-takeback.

    We shouldn't assume that Patterson is going to sharpen his axe and use it right away. I personally think he will wait a year or two before he has who he wants as the teachers.

    BB, being liked by students and other faculty at SWBTS doesn't mean a thing. Hemphill was conservative compared to the BGCT, but not necessarily in line with the leadership. His pseudo-conservatives, erggg, moderates, won't last with Patterson there.
     
  8. gb93433

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    It never ceases to amaze me how gullible some are and how they would libel a person whom they have never met or ever read any primary sources of information. The issue about Dr. Bullock and Dr.Stookey has been in the Baptist state paper several times. I assume it was also in the local Ft. Worth paper as well.

    You mentioned, "They were not people of integrity, as they did not clearly hold to the BFM2000." It amazes me that you would libel someone with accusations that are totally unfounded. I had Dr. Bullock for church history. I found her to be one of the most gracious ladies I have met. I know of no finer example of Christ. She is a very godly lady. Her dad is a retired Southern Baptist pastor. Her husband was with the Royal Ambassadors. Dr. Bullock was the kind of teacher that gave herself to her students. She was one of the finest teachers at the seminary. If she were employed by a secular university her pay would probably increase by at least fifty percent. Consistently Dr. Bullock's students do much better in her class than the rest of the seminary classes. She motivates her students to do well. Everyday she came to class enthusiastic. Typically I did not like history classes. But because of her teaching I began to like and actually look forward to class. It amazes me how much I use the information she gave us. We had to study hard for her tests. They were not easy at all. She was a hard teacher but at the same time made you feel like being there.

    FYI she did sign the BF&M 2000.

    The seminary phone number is (817)923-1921 You can get her extension from the operator.

    She can be contacted by email at [email protected]

    Before you libel someone I suggest that you contact them first or at least use some primary sources for your information.

    A half-truth is a dangerous thing, especially if you have got hold of the wrong half.
    Myron F. Boyd

    The devil tries to shake truth by pretending to defend it.
    Tertullian

    Gunther, if you ever have the privilege of sitting in Dr. Bullock's class just once, you will be a changed man. You will never say the things you have about her on this board. Call her and ask if you can visit her class sometime.
     
  9. Baptist Believer

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    I appreciate your attitude here.

    Since you have now heard from a number of people that your information is faulty, it’s time to find out the truth for yourself… not only for the sake of being accurate about this subject, but also to determine if your source of information is trustworthy.

    I’m guessing you are going to find out that you’ve been deceived.

    Sure it does. You made that claim that they were “inept”. Unless you somehow believe that the majority of faculty and students at Southwestern do not have enough intelligence to recognize an “inept” professor, the point stands without requiring any more evidence.

    Yep. That’s why they told him to resign from Southwestern.

    Hemphill’s problem is that he has a conscience. (I say that as a person who doesn’t have much respect for Hemphill.) He had a very difficult time playing the game while he was president of Southwestern.

    I agree that Patterson will purge (either by his presence or by direct means) everyone who does not provide unqualified allegiance to the fundamentalist takeover. The trustees have driven off or retired the most of the best professors already.
     
  10. Jimmy C

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    quote:
    ________________________________________________
    Based on the information I had regarding the two profs, I made my post.
    ________________________________________________

    Gunther, where exactly did you get your information, a friend who knows as much about SWBTS as you?

    ________________________________________________
    quote:
    Now, if any of it is truly in error, I do apologize for misrepresenting the facts.
    _________________________________________________

    Nice apology, I will demand at least as tough an apology when someone denigrates your character with absolutely no facts to back them up.

    ________________________________________________
    Quote:
    I do seem to remember that the woman delivered a "lesson" in which some of her comments came across anti-takeback.
    _________________________________________________

    the woman as you so humbly refer to her is Dr. Karen Bullock, an Associate Dean in the School of Theology as well as an esteemed History professor who was invited by the administration of SWBTS to give a chapel address, she said nothing about the takeover, nor did she say anything negative about the SBC, the president, the dean of the school or about the takeover or as you like to call it the takeback. To read anything negative in her address is a huge strectch

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    Quote
    We shouldn't assume that Patterson is going to sharpen his axe and use it right away. I personally think he will wait a year or two before he has who he wants as the teachers.
    ________________________________________________

    Patterson says he did not ax anyone at SWBTS and he does not plan to ax anyone at SWBTS, so I guess you are calling him a liar as well?

    ________________________________________________
    Quote:
    BB, being liked by students and other faculty at SWBTS doesn't mean a thing. Hemphill was conservative compared to the BGCT, but not necessarily in line with the leadership. His pseudo-conservatives, erggg, moderates, won't last with Patterson there.
    _________________________________________________

    Now you are calling the trustees and the leadership of the SBC all liars, they maintain to this day that Dr Hemphill was not forced out at SWBTS, but was led by God to do the empowering the Kingdom work or whatever it is called. Being the fundamental conservatives that they are we can only believe that they are telling the truth!

    The professors at SWBTS are great men and women of God. they are conservative, bible believing Christians, who have all signed the BFM 2000. What more could you ask for?
     
  11. gb93433

    gb93433
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    "Patterson preached an avowedly evangelistic sermon before more than 1,500 faculty, staff and students during Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary's annual convocation chapel Aug. 26. "

    Does anyone know if the number of 1500 is true or not? If that is true that is less than one half of the number of students compared to when I gradutaed.
     
  12. Baptist Believer

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    Actually, there are more students than that (although I couldn't give you a number). I think the reference to 1500 is just the number of students, faculty and staff in the chapel service.
     
  13. gb93433

    gb93433
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    Some may no know that SWBTS recently hired a woman professor to teach Hebrew and OT. How many women do you think will take Hebrew anyway? When I took Hebrew there was not one woman in the class of about 60 men. The Patterson's claim that women should never teach men. (They are not pastoring them). Perhaps some men could never be taught by a woman. But I am not too sure they could be taught much by a man either. Teaching at a seminary is not all that different than teaching at a university. If there are not women teachers in various areas then who will guide the women students. Gosh I guess some forgot about Lotie Moon and her impact. She was engaged to a man and later refused to marry him. He wortea commentary on Proverbs. He later crashed.His name--(You may have heard of the man who wrote the ICC comentary on Proverbs) Professor C. H. Toy. Lottie Moon continued to live for Jesus and Toy did not. Doesn't it sound like she had more wisdom from God and he didn't?

    Dorothy Patterson was brought in as a full tenured profesor with no examination process and no teaching background experience required etc.

    They are now adding a 1500 square feet additon onto the President's home just for his library. I have been in every room in that house many times. I worked on that home for several months. There is a nice library/ofice there along with a number of book cases. Every prsident that preceded Patterson found the home to be sufficient. That house is a large house and if needed more room for books they could have useed a bedroom. He also has the use of a large office at SWBTS with many shelves for books.

    They are also bringing in an additional cook for parties rather than use the cooks already at SWBTS.

    At a time when finances are down in the SBC what an example that is for future pastors at the seminary! Does the President need so much more than anyone else? He even has a man who drives them around. Can't he drive himself. The past presidents did.

    What that money would do for bivocational pastors who are struggling in tough areas!
     

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