Explain this to me

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by abcgrad94, Dec 3, 2010.

  1. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94
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    Why do some "Christian" men feel that women are so far beneath them, they can ignore or treat women with a lesser standard? Is this a cultural thing? Something taught by extremely conservative preachers? I've run into this quite a bit since living in WV, and I'm confused and irritated by it.

    I've found this to be true of other local pastors, visiting missionaries, members of other churches, and even the husbands (who don't attend church) of some of our church ladies. They are rude, unkind, and openly dismissing of women, even while in our home, or receiving hospitality or meals (mostly provided by me.) They treat my husband completely the opposite.

    This has happened with all ages of men. Do churches and Bible colleges (or even parents!) not teach people basic manners anymore?
     
  2. kyredneck

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    ...........boy, if this ain't a loaded thread I ain't never seen one......

    I pass. No comment.
     
  3. Steven2006

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    In my opinion, from what I have observed those same people will often show those same poor attitudes towards many others including men. It is something lacking in their character, and it shows itself in many a variety of occasions.
     
  4. preacher4truth

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    I am glad you brought that up.

    I am from the Cleveland OH area. Came to MO, and have noticed this here.

    Also, other issues became relevant here, such as versions, pants...you know the drill.

    I don't get it at all.
     
  5. abcgrad94

    abcgrad94
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    Not trying to start a war here, kyredneck. I'd just like some truthful insight. Please don't be ANOTHER man who won't talk to me! LOL!

    Seriously, is it cultural that men "shouldn't" converse with women while at the dinner table? Or while fellowshipping at church? Or if she babysits your kids? Are men terrified to speak because it might be taken wrong or something? Honestly, I want to know why. Because there is a reason for it, and without discussing they WHY, we women are left to ASSUME, which isn't always accurate.
     
  6. Don

    Don
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    Hate to tell you this, but it's a cultural/societal problem. Met a pastor in Mississippi that didn't think it was a bad thing to slap your wife once in a while in order to keep her in line. Of course, they look at the guidelines in Ephesians 5 about husbands treating their wives like Jesus treats the church...and they say, "well, God has to slap us down once in a while, so we think we're following His example...."

    In other words, they're raised that way, and it influences their Christianity, instead of the other way around.

    Not trying to justify it, ain't saying it's correct. Just saying I understand why they do it.
     
  7. Steven2006

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    I still contend that is something lacking in character of that individual. This type of boorish behaviour from a person would not be limited to only women, but will show itself in other circumstances where they feel superior to another.
     
  8. jaigner

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    The problem is that we live in a culture steeped in patriarchy and male domination.

    Until women are treated as equals in the Church, in the home, in the business place, and every other corner of civilization, we are going to continually have this problem.

    Of course, this problem is most rampant in lesser civilized, rural and hyper-complementarian settings.

    Let me apologize, ABC, and let me tell you that there would be nothing wrong with sternly confronting such disrespect when it meets you. Men who act like this are stubborn and repulsive and need to be continually confronted in a tactful but compelling way.

    If someone talked to my wife like that, I would jump all over them, but, of course, my wife would probably beat me to it.
     
  9. SRBooe

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    We don't have that problem here in lower Alabama.

    Most women here know how to shoot and have their own guns.

    What I have seen, and it is not just among the old-timers but also with the new generation, is that females are objects. Just listen to the junk they call Rap music.

    Courtesy is more common among us old-timers than it is with the younger folks. That way here, any way.

    By the way, I find it funny that folks refer to "lesser civilized" in the U.S. From my point of view, those who live in the cow-herd neighborhoods in Big Cities don't know much about civilized. Move out to the wide open spaces and see what civilized is. Like behind the wheels of cars in the mega metropolises and see who acts civilized.
     
  10. kyredneck

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    You're not native to the mountains?.....of WVA? I suspect much of this is cultural, and believe me, mountain folk can be hard to understand sometime.

    Are these men really being ' rude, unkind, and openly dismissing of women'? Or is there a possibility that you're taking it the wrong way?

    The most openly demeaning treatment of women I have witnessed in the Baptist world have been from several, not a few, but several, Landmarkists that I have had acquaintance with. In fact, I lost my temper with one, at OUR dinner table, in OUR home, that was OUR guest, for the downright mean way he was speaking to his wife in my family's presence (it didn't help any that he also owed me money).

    Anyway, in these parts I'm from, we're raised and taught that there are different roles for the two genders, but the boys are taught to respect the ladies, at least in my day they were.
     
  11. webdog

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    We don't have that problem here in the northeast...we treat everyone poor :)

    To the OP...you shouldn't have posted here, you belong in the women's only forum...go back to making dinner;) :D
    :tonofbricks:
     
  12. kyredneck

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    Lol, my wife has a couple of nicknames; one of them is Annie Oakley. She's an excellent shot.
     
  13. abcgrad94

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    I was raised mostly in Kentucky, but I've lived in WV for 18 years. To me, yes, they are rude. For example, some men came to work here on the parsonage. One of them yelled at me because I let my dog out to go potty while they were working and they had left my fence gate open while they were out there, and my dog got out. Completely his fault, not mine, but he literally raised his voice at me over it. When my dh came home, the man acted all nice like nothing ever happened. We've had missionaries over to eat with us, who would not talk to me or even look at me or our children, even if I asked a question, but would ignore me and talk only to my dh.
    A local pastor would not even return a greeting of hello or handshake while at church, but warmly greeted my dh. (Although I suspect this was because I was wearing slacks and I think he has a problem with that.)

    Recently I babysat 3 children all day long, one of which was an infant, and I cooked dinner for a family because the wife was unable to do either. The husband acted like I had the plague, refused to talk or even thank me when he brought the kids over and picked them up. He'll talk non-stop to my dh, but won't give me the time of day. Even my dh noticed it and was confused.
     
  14. kyredneck

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    Wow. That kinda blows my mind. I would be very grateful, and not afraid to show it, if you were to do such for my family. FWIW, I commend you for your charity.

    {maybe you should come back to good ol' Kentucky)
     
  15. blackbird

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    ABC---I personally find just the opposit to be true-----most women I know--it seems I just about have to hold a gun on them to get them to speak to me----like THEY are the ones who are terrified to speak to ME because it may be taken the wrong way---a good majority of the women I know---If I don't initiate the conversation---there won't be any conversation

    What I believe is------you are on a two way street and you just so happen to be looking in the opposite direction from my perspective

    Your Southern Baptist preacher friend,
    Bro. David
    aka blackbird
     
  16. Amy.G

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    Hey ky, watch out! :tongue3:
    I live in a mountain community and I have never run into what ABC is talking about. So around here it ain't cultural. That's mountain talk ya know.

    Seriously, I have not had men in my community or church treat me with less respect than anyone else. This is a rural town and to be honest the rudest people I've run into moved here from other states (to retire...good golf courses). They seem to think they're better than us country bumpkins.
     
  17. glfredrick

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    I've seen the same types of behavior, both in Christian and non-Christian situations.

    In some Christian circumstances, including marriage, I've seen where the man considers himself the head of the household -- which is indeed a proper biblical position -- except that as head they see themselves as "king." That is sad. They expect their woman to jump for them, do all the dirty work, and then after... well you know. Even when this is done in a "nice" way, it still grates on my nerves. It takes the whole concept of biblical submission to a place where God never takes it. Of course, in secular situations, anything goes. I've seen couples that beat on each other, denigrate each other, and fight worse than a pair of junkyard dogs. Sad, sad, sad.

    Some men have a need to be "strong" and as such, put everyone under their feet. There is only one cure that I've seen for that -- someone or something stronger than that man who can set him into his place. I've been that someone in a few situations and it is always a shocking sort of thing to the man that gets set down...

    Such behavior often comes from, as has already been mentioned, cultural and traditional lines. But, I think it comes from other than that as well. In Genesis 3, we see Adam blaming God and Eve for his sin. "The woman you gave me..." The enemy that causes us to tear each other apart uses this same tactic with much success, and he has maximized its effectiveness, even through Christian circles. We see further that God cursed both man and woman, and that curse makes our lives difficult at times (mildly stated!).

    Then, there are the differences between men and women that come into play. Men operate in a land where respect is king and is their native language. When they don't get the respect they feel they need or deserve, they'll often extract it from someone else -- wife and kids perhaps. Women, however, operate in the realm of love, and are also created by God to be helpmates (not slaves!) and so in order to please their hubby or other men, women often serve -- sometimes out of duty, sometimes cultural expectation, and sometimes so they don't get beat! Not realizing how these languages work in the relationship, both men and women do things that tear down the partner instead of loving and building them up into the godly person that our Lord intended.

    The cure is often taking that man aside and teaching him what it means to be a priest and shepherd as he heads the household. As he denigrates his women, he denigrates himself, for the "two have become one flesh..." He also sins against God, who made it plain how it is that we ought to act in our relationship to the women in our lives. Rather, he should look at his wife (or the women in his life) as gifts from God, for that they are!

    God specifically commands we men to love our wives as Christ loved the church. That means shepherding her, loving her, caring for her, learning her, and building her up. The same Word commands women to respect their husbands, and that means being that awesome helpmate -- not because he needs a slave to do his dirty work -- because in building up a loving husband, he will also raise up alongside himself his bride and queen! The more she lifts him up into the godly, priestly, leader, the more he can take care of her most pressing needs for love, protection, and strength.

    Not to use my own marriage as THE example, but I know it best, my wife and I have been married for 33 years. We started dating almost 5 years before that (she was just 14, I was 16!). We have grown into our relationship and over the years I've went through a lot of phases, especially before age 27 when I was born again. Early on, I lorded it over her, called her horrible names (as a joke... yeah, right :BangHead:), and thought I was doing the right stuff by being "manly." God so broke us down that there was hardly any man left by the time He got done with us. Then He saved me... Then He started teaching me the true meaning of love in the marriage relationship.

    OH! How Good HE Is! My wife and I now partner in love and respect in our marriage. I build her up as high as I can! I have learned to "know" my bride (a thing that most men never learn). I can shop for her and bring home complete outfits, jewelry, even undergarments that fit perfectly and make her look amazing. I've learned how to bless her. And she has learned how to build me up into the godly leader she wants and needs. I'm her "big strong man" and I take care of our family, our ministry, and our future (as far as God will let me!). Oh, how good it is to love a woman like that!

    Over our years, especially since I was saved, I have only raised my voice once to my wife, and I still regret doing that. It was not worth it. Even though she was going through a rough time and some of the frustrations were coming out of both of us in wrong ways, it was not worth seeing the look of pain in my baby's eyes and I resolved that I will never fail to love her again. I tell her I love her. I show her I love her. I do romantic things in public that say to everyone around that I love her! I officiate weddings and have written into the vows I prefer these words that echo my own heart of love for my bride, "I say to the world, this is my WIFE!" Together, we allow others to see our love as an example for how marriage can work.

    Some men don't like what I do... I've yet to find the woman who doesn't like it though. The men? They're probably the problem... I'm accused of being "whipped" and other things men say about other men. All I can say is that I'm the alpha male -- bring it... But I don't have to demonstrate my strength in ways that are un-loving to the woman that God gifted me with. That does not and can not make me more the man.

    http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...250618185075_543735074_14637965_2565199_n.jpg
     
  18. kyredneck

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    Actually Amy, that statement of mine came out wrong...or sumthin like that. I meant to be inferring to abcgrad that perhaps she was misreading some cultural traits of the mountain folk there as rudeness to women. In these hills here in KY women are treated with respect. (my heritage is in the mountains of E. KY.)
     
  19. Pareeeee

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    I've met a few Baptist men that were like this.

    Although the Bible DOES say that we (women) are to obey our husbands, husbands are also to love their wives as themselves.

    Men that think it's ok to hit their wives, etc, that is not Biblical. (even though some women act like they need a slap LOL. I have a very patient husband. I'm so thankful for that :) )

    Marriage is a picture of Christ and the Church.

    Husbands and wives that forget the Bible and don't study it together like they should, will have issues.
     
    #19 Pareeeee, Dec 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2010
  20. Don

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    ABC, I read your description of babysitting, and I couldn't help but wonder -- sometimes we men will ignore other women because we don't want folks to get a notion that we're paying undue attention to womenfolk who ain't our wives.

    I even knew one pastor that said, from the pulpit, that if any woman, including ones who were church members, were out walking in the rain, he would not stop to pick them up if he was by himself, because he didn't want anyone to see him alone in his car with a woman who was not his wife. And his wife supported that viewpoint.

    Now, the ol' boy that yelled at you about your dog? He's pretty worthless.
     

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