Expose that relic of Popery (Padeobaptism)

Discussion in 'All Other Discussions' started by Robert William, Mar 13, 2015.

  1. Robert William

    Robert William
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    It's time to expose and get rid of that relic of Popery. :wavey:

    I think it's time for us who see their deceptions, to expose Padeobaptism once and for all and get rid of the relic of Popery. We need to question them further when they make statements saying their children are covenant children, what exactly does that mean, what are those covenant children a part of???? Can you see the deception, and there are many more.
    Our scriptures teach us that only those who's hearts are circumcised are part of the Church the body of Christ, a circumcision made without hands, not a man made water ritual.
     
  2. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    Literally, the best argument anyone can come up with for infant baptism so far has been…."we don't know they DIDN'T do it".
     
  3. PreachTony

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    Obviously I'm staunchly against paedobaptism, but c'mon, that baby is adorable...
    [​IMG]
    Of course, the bottom line should read "It's not Biblical, but we've made it a Tradition, and it can be Adorable..."
     
  4. Robert William

    Robert William
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    There is nothing adorable about it, it's a perversion of the church and the gospel, we are to be sola scriptura not sola emotional. The reason why the perversion of baptism lives on is because people like you don't take scripture seriously.
     
    #4 Robert William, Mar 13, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2015
  5. PreachTony

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    Okay, first off, it was a joke, RW. Did you not read where I said I was against paedobaptism? You can search many of my posts and you'll see that I'm very much opposed to it. The baby in that picture cannot be blamed for being baptized. It has no control over that situation. So calm down in this derision you're aiming at me. Cool your jets.

    Secondly, don't ever tell me I don't take scripture seriously. I take it as seriously as I can. It is truly a matter of life and death. I might not agree with your interpretation, but that does not mean I don't take it as seriously as you do. You're awful quick to toss around accusations against other members when they do the slightest thing that you disagree with. Perhaps if you would dig a little bit and see the past remarks of people posting things like that, then you might be a little slower to judge and accuse.

    If you believe I would "pervert" baptism then you truly do not know me. The only person who should be baptized is the believer, who is of an age capable of heeding the call of God and coming unto repentance and salvation. They should only be baptized after making their confession of faith. If they are never baptized after their confession, that does not stop them from entering the rest and the glory awaiting us at the end. Any church that performs infant baptism and then uses that baptism to lead astray people who have never truly known the Lord in the free pardon of sin is a false church guilty of hiding the gospel from their congregation.
     
  6. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
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    THAT was worth the wait. Good stuff, P.T..

    :thumbsup::applause:
     
  7. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire
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    What's the kid in....looks like a pot. :laugh:
     
  8. PreachTony

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    Thanks, Bro. Curtis.

    I don't mind if people disagree with me, but I cannot stand to be told that I don't take the scripture seriously. Anyone who knows me knows that I hold the scripture very dear, and I do hold it to be the infallible, inerrant, inspired Word of God.
     
  9. Robert William

    Robert William
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    Baby baptism is not something to joke about, many Pastors who could be wolves in sheep's clothing are deceived by it and are in turn deceiving thousands. Too many Christians are turning sola emotional.
     
  10. PreachTony

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    I don't disagree. I'm glad you were willing to make acknowledgement of the fact that you made false accusations against a fellow BB member.

    We can joke about stuff between fellow members and believers. Yes, there is some stuff that we should not joke about, and there are times when we should be serious, but joking is not wrong. If we indeed cannot joke about certain things, then what else do you want to keep Christians from joking about among fellow Christians?
     
  11. tyndale1946

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    First of all the person who is "convicted" of their sins and desires to be baptized must come to be baptized. When has a baby been convicted and desired to be baptized and come to be baptized? If that so then mamma baptized me in a tub more times than I can count until I could bathe myself. I don't need to ramble on hear what the Apostle Peter says, in reference to the ark and Noah.

    I Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

    So baby "WHY" do you want to be baptized?... According to Peter a baby doesn't qualify. Can a baby follow Christ?... In my lifetime I've never seen a baby follow Christ!... Scripture tells of one who was born again in his mothers womb but that's another topic. I known of churches where they have a baby dedication to the Lord where no baptism is involved. The parents and church charged with raising the child up with Christian values and teachings in the home... I see nothing wrong with that... I think all churches would be better off if we did that. Maybe your church does... Brother Glen
     
  12. Robert William

    Robert William
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    :thumbsup: Thanks for the backup and for taking the subject seriously.
     
  13. tyndale1946

    tyndale1946
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    I definitely do! Here is more on the subject and as you can see baby baptism is as old as the flood.

    One has to go back to Genesis 10 and 11 where we read of Noah's Great grandson, NIMROD, and his wife SEMIRAMUS, who started the great pagan BABYLON MYSTERY RELIGION at the Tower of Babel. This great pagan religion was later known as 'BAAL WORSHIP' in the Old Testament, simply another name for Nimrod. The great book, TWO BABYLONS by Alexander Hislop gives us a little background on this Babylon Mystery Religion of 'BAAL WORSHIP' started by Nimrod and Semiramus.

    BABYLON MYSTERY RELIGION
    In this mysterious Babylonian Religious System, Nimrod and Semiramis, along with their priests, were the only ones who understood 'The great mysteries of God' and since it was the only true religion... all others were false... therefore, only the Babylonian Priests could forgive and absolve sins...and administer salvation. Salvation could be achieved thru various Sacraments performed during the person's life time. These SACRAMENTS were so-called 'Channels of grace' whereby salvation could be achieved. These Sacraments, necessary to salvation ..began at birth with Infant Baptism, other sacraments throughout life, ending with a final anointing with oil at death to prepare one for the hereafter. Now Since the Babylonian Priest was the only one who could administer these 'sacraments', the person was 'bound' to the Babylonian system helplessly for life! The first essential sacrament Semiramis taught was Baptism by water. The fact that such "Baptism" was practiced 2000 years before it was even mentioned and practiced in Christianity is an established fact, and it can be traced right back to Babylon and Semiramis herself! The ancient historian Bryant (vol.3 p2l,84) traces this pagan baptism back to the practice of commemorating Noah and his 3 sons deliverance thru the waters of the flood, emerging from the ark and entering a New life. To commemorate this event, the Priests of Nimrod would 'baptize' new-born infants the fathers chose to keep, and they would become 'born-again' and become members of the Babylonian Mystery Religion. (Hislop,Two Babylons, p134) The fact that the Devil practiced the ritual of Baptism over 2000 years before it was even used in Christianity has truly amazed historians!

    WHERE DID THIS BABY BAPTISM COME FROM?
    Armitage's History (p73) explains the pagan civil law and social customs of that day. These pagans had no standard of morality as you and I have. Their marriage rites were not on the basis ours are. One man might be the husband of a hundred women, and he might be the father of several hundred children. The mother had no right at all to determine whether the child she bore was to live or not, that was le ft up to the FATHER. Just as the farmer would go down to the pigpen and pick out the pigs he wanted to keep and do away with the runts, so was the father the one who decided if the child was to be kept and allowed to live. The mother could not even name the child if it was kept, the pagan priest did that. If the child was decided to be kept, the daddy would take it down to the pagan priest and the ceremony would be arranged. The Priest first must 'exorcise' evil spirits from the infant by anointing the baby's head with OIL. With the oil the priest puts the occult mark of Tammuz on the child's head by marking a "T" with the oil. (later to become the 'Sign of the Cross) The Priest then put SALT and SPITTLE on the baby's tongue to preserve it from future influence of evil spirits. "HOLY WATER" is now sprinkled or poured over the baby's head, and the baby is said to be cleansed from any original sin and is now "born-again" and a member of the Babylonian Religion. This process was known as INFANT CHRISTENING and was practiced hundreds of years before Christ, (Hislop,pl38) and is found NOWHERE in the Bible! There is not a single example of a baby being 'baptized' or 'christened' in the Bible! Knowing what you do now, WOULD YOU WANT YOUR BABY CHRISTENED?
    This was called 'Baal Worship' in the Old Testament, and God called it an abomination!

    The Two Babylons or Papal Worship maybe online and I recommend it highly, written in 1858 by Alexander Hislop. It is also in book form. Well worth the price!... Brother Glen
     
  14. Robert William

    Robert William
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    Amen, even now the way they do it today is an abomination because it's a perversion of the Church and the gospel, they don't know which babies are goats, but they baptise them anyway and say they are part of the new covenant church. The worst part of all is the deceptions when they teach that it is scriptural.
     
  15. tyndale1946

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    I agree but tread lightly calling a baby a goat. Strikes to close to the heart strings. Even though Adam is his daddy. We are ALL born in sin!

    Psalms 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me... Brother Glen
     
  16. Robert William

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    You and I both know there are goat babies born to Christian couples every day.

    Also because I love truth I have holy anger at how baby sprinklers pervert the church and the gospel. I am also angry that most churches are poisoned with Pelagianism.
     
  17. PreachTony

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    How do you know which adults are goats? Some adults put up such a facade when it comes to religion that they could deceive almost anyone. You can't just say you know them by their works, because Christ Himself said people would say to Him "didn't we cast out devils in your name? and do these great works in your name?" yet He never knew them.

    Since it's impossible for man to know which people are "sheep" and which are "goats," and since you think that should limit who receives baptism, then why bother even preaching the gospel? After all, the gospel is more important than baptism. If someone is unworthy of baptism (in your eyes), then are they not also unworthy of hearing the gospel? Or, like another BB member here (who I'm still kinda thinking you might be), do you think the gospel is already permanently hidden to the lost, and so they are born already damned with no Hope of salvation?

    You know, there are some people here who support Calvinism that I get along with quite well. Then there are the hyper-Cals, like what you're purporting, who have no qualms about a Hell full of non-Elect babies and toddlers. They claim God is Love, but then have no problem saying God has created babies already damned to Hell. I have yet to find that in scripture, yet the hyper-Cal acts like it is known to everyone.
     
  18. Robert William

    Robert William
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    Every baby, every human is born under the spirit of the air and are on a path damned to Hell.

    Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)


    Does God discriminate, see my signature?

    I don't know which adults are goats so I give the gospel to all, neither do I know which babies are part of the predestined elect, (see Eph 1) that's part of the reason why I reject baby baptism.

    You seem to have a problem with predestination and election?

    Do you think God is obligated to save anybody, does anybody deserve the love of God? That He saved a few and passed over the rest makes Him very gracious, it would of been Holy and right for Him to right now throw the entire earths population into the eternal lake of fire.
     
  19. PreachTony

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    How do you say this when you believe in "predestined election?" If you are honest in your belief in predestination, then you have to say that not every human is born on a path damned to Hell. It's impossible for every human to be on that path if they are predestined to Election.

    Sure. He is the potter and we are the clay. He has every right to do what He desires with us. I get the sense that some Cals and hyper-Cals are terrified of this notion that God can be fully sovereign and still have granted free will unto His creation.

    I reject infant baptism because I believe baptism should only be given to a professing believer. None of us can know the sheep or goat status of anyone else, so we can only go off their profession of faith. For me, my profession of faith stems from my experience of grace. Without that experience, it's impossible to know if one is saved. I know plenty of Calvinists who discredit the experience of grace in favor of a not-really-acknowledge form of works salvation they lump in under Lordship Salvation.

    God isn't obligated to save anyone. He gives us Grace in saving us. At least you are honest in saying that God is damning the greater majority to Hell in your theology, simply because He chooses to.

    In your theology of predestination, how do you believe man comes to repentance? Is it something that God gives him?
     
  20. Robert William

    Robert William
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    Tony, I think the only reason why we are clashing is because you believe in the man made myth of free will. Tony, this is very important, please read the following and look up the scriptures. :)

    Free Will

    What is this issue of the bondage of the will all about? It points to what the Bible says is the real condition of the natural man. If we set aside church traditions for a moment go through what the Bible asserts about fallen man it may be surprising to you. First we need to establish whether or not man has a free will, according to Scripture. But how do we do this?

    The Text not only says that the natural man is a sinner, but that he does not have the Spirit of God. He is not born of the Spirit. Agreed? Jesus says, Flesh gives birth to flesh and the Spirit gives birth to spirit (John 3:3,6) and "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is of no avail.”" (John 6:63) & Paul says that “the natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. (1 Cor 2:14). We do not receive things we think are foolish and that we do not understand. The natural man does not have the mind of Christ so even if someone preaches to him until he is blue in the face, he will not respond to the gospel unless God grants belief and repentance (see John 6:65 & 2 Tim 2:25, Eph 2:8). The Bible indeed declares that no one can believe without a preacher but this is not enough by itself …. the seed of the gospel that is cast forth from the preacher must be germinated, so to speak, by the Holy Spirit, if a person is to come to Christ. Paul explains how he knows some were chosen of God. He says, “For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power and in the Holy Spirit and with full conviction.” (1 Thess 1:4, 5) This is clear evidence the Spirit is necessary, not optional for a person to be made alive so he may come to Christ..without which man would remain naturally dead to the things of Christ.

    The Holy Spirit is critical for salvation, so critical that without Him, no one would ever willingly submit to the humbling terms of the gospel, not one would come to Jesus Christ. Agreed? Or do you believe the Scripture teaches that a man can come to faith apart from the Holy Spirit? All true Christians affirm the necessity of the Holy Spirit. So from this very fact, we have established that man has no free will. Again, what is meant when we say no free will? We are not speaking of someone coercing us from the outside. No. It means that we are in bondage to a corruption of nature, out of which we cannot free ourselves BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT and hate God by nature (John 3:19). We cannot draw from our own resources to even lift a finger toward our own salvation. Jesus says in the Gospel of John to the Jews that only the Son can set them free, but they are now children of the Devil the father of lies, who lies because it is in his nature. In Romans 6 it reads that natural men are slaves to sin, and elsewhere that that Satan has taken men captive to do his will. If Christ is to set us free then it means we were not free and in bondage.

    So it is important to ask, can a person, without the intervention of the Holy Spirit, believe the gospel? Does the natural person have the capacity to understand spiritual things? According to the above passages the answer is clearly no. 'No one says “Jesus is Lord” apart from the Holy Spirit.' So the unbeliever is void of the Spirit which is another way of saying that he has no free will. He may make voluntary choices but they are choices of necessity. In other words, he necessarily chooses sin, apart from grace. Nothing he does springs from a heart that loves God. His condition, if left to himself, is hopeless. God must intervene to illumine his mind, open blind eyes, unplug deaf ears, disarm his natural hostility, change our disposition and turn our heart of stone to a heart of flesh.

    So if we can agree that a man will not come to Christ apart from the Holy Spirit, then we also agree and have established that the natural man has no free will. God must act if we are to do anything toward our redemption (See John 1:13).

    Some important verses to contemplate are:

    Romans 8:30 which says, “those who were called were justified” According to this verse, I ask you, how many of those God called were justified? The answer to this question is why no one resists God’s call.

    And Jesus himself said, “ALL that the Father gives to me WILL come to me…”(John 6:37) Not some, Jesus says, but ALL that God the Father gives the SON will believe on him. We believe that grace is invincible because this is what the Bible teaches … and without which no man would willingly come. When your child runs out in the street and a car is coming, do you wait to see what he will do with his free will, or do you run to scoop him out of danger. Love doesn't just wring hands and hope but it gets the job done and, in God's case saves the ones He came for. (See John 6:39). Jesus says he will lose NONE OF ALL THAT THE FATHER HAS GIVEN HIM - John 6:39
     

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