Exposed: False Illustrations to ‘Prove’ Doctrine – Part 2

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Protestant, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. Protestant

    Protestant
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    In this second illustration our well-meaning board member attempts to prove that hearing and learning of the Father is well within the natural ability of all men. His illustration is designed to prove man has the natural ability to come in faith to Christ. However, he says all men do not use that innate ability to their advantage. Other men make better use of their natural ability. Therefore, the doctrine of man’s Total Inability is false.

    Example # 2:
    “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.” (John 6:45-46)​


    “It takes two to tango. Even the best teacher cannot teach someone who is unwilling to learn. The teaching is provided by the Father, but the hearing and learning must be performed by the recipient of that teaching.

    Any teacher will tell you students learn differently. The teacher gives the same instructions and lessons to all students. Some pay diligent attention, study and do their homework and learn much, while others goof off in class, refuse to study and do their homework, and fail miserably.”

    Refutation:
    “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.” (John 14:26)​


    The Holy Spirit is no ordinary Teacher. He is God Almighty with whom nothing is too difficult. No slacker is too dumb, too stubborn, or too rebellious for Him to teach the doctrine of God. His wisdom is infinite, as is His knowledge perfect no matter the subject.

    Those whom are taught of God by the Spirit will come to saving faith, despite their natural spiritual stupidity and slothfulness. For God cannot fail at any of His purposes.

    The fishermen Apostles are excellent examples of God’s power to teach. Their schooling paled in comparison to the Pharisees, Sadducees and Scribes, yet their God-given wisdom caused great wonderment.

    “ Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.” (Acts 4:13)​


    John the Baptist knew the power of God to reach and teach even the hardest heart and the most depraved sinner, for he declared:

    “And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.” (Matthew 3:9)​


    Peter’s revelation that Jesus was the Christ, Son of the living God was not the result of an extraordinary intellect, godliness or insight, but rather the supernatural revelation which came from God the Father. (Matt. 16:17)

    Jesus clearly and emphatically explains how men come to the saving knowledge of the Father and Son:

    “All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.” (Matt. 11:27)

    Unlike human students who vary in their ability to do well in school, all sinful men, without exception, lack the power to receive and believe the Spirit of truth. Flesh cannot receive or believe the things of the Spirit. If they cannot receive the Spirit of truth, then they cannot receive Jesus Christ, who IS the truth. Jesus solemnly declares sinners’ Total Inability:

    “Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world [i.e., all unregenerate men] cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.” (John 14:17)

    Conclusion: The well-meaning board member introduces many profound errors through his illustration.

    • He denies the necessity of God’s omnipotent power to reach and teach men who are by nature spiritual morons, imbecilic rebellious sinners who could care less about the truth according to the Lord.

    • He denies the infallible, effectual work by God’s omnipotent power to reach and teach any spiritual moron, any imbecilic rebellious sinner who could care less about the truth according to the Lord.

    • He exalts and glorifies sinful, hate-filled man by teaching it is man who makes the ultimate difference as to who God is able to teach, despite the obvious scriptural truth of 1 Cor. 4:7.

    • He exalts and glorifies the will of sinful, hate-filled man who is in bondage to sin and Satan.

    • He denies that saving knowledge of God is imparted only by God….and that infallibly so.

    • He denies the freedom of God to give or withhold that knowledge as He wills.
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    John 16 - the Holy Spirit "Convicts THE WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" - not just the elect.

    John 12:32 - Christ said "I will draw ALL unto Me" not just the elect.

    John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave" is not saying "God so loved just the FEW of Matt 7 that He gave".

    John 1 Christ is the light that "coming into the WORLD enlightens EVERY man" -- not just the elect.

    Anyone looking for "supernatural help" in getting sinners whose free will is disabled by the sinful nature - can find that supernatural help in the texts above.

    And yet "He came to HIS OWN and His own received Him NOT" John 1.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. Winman

    Winman
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    The issue is not that God through the Holy Spirit is unable to teach, the issue is that God does not force or compel any person to learn against their will. This is shown over and over again throughout scripture.

    Pro 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

    God does not shove knowledge down our throat. He has given every man free will. A man must choose for himself if he will fear the Lord and learn from him, just as a student in school must choose for himself if he will pay attention, study hard, and learn.

    I agree, God can teach the dullest person. Nevertheless, the scriptures show God does not force a person to learn, but they must willingly choose to learn.

    Pro 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;
    25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

    If you don't want to learn, God will not force you to learn.

    Not the issue. You cannot seem to grasp that God did not force these fishermen to learn, they wanted to learn.

    Mar 4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

    Jesus told his disciples to take heed what they hear. That would be nonsensical if your view were true. Jesus said to those who hear, more will be given. But to those that will not hear, even what was given them shall be taken away.

    That is not what John the Baptist is teaching here. He is teaching these Jews that they need to repent of the false belief that you can inherit salvation. Being a physical descendant of Abraham did not guarantee they would go to heaven. They needed to repent or turn from this false belief. This scripture is not saying God force-feeds people knowledge whatsoever.

    Agreed, if God did not reveal Jesus to us through his word that was revealed through prophets and preachers, all men would be in utter darkness. But again, this is not teaching that God forces men to learn against their will.

    Yes, but how is that done? Through the word of God. If you know about the Father (or Jesus), it is because someone preached the word of God to you. God did not magically zap you with this knowledge. And you had to pay attention to learn.

    God said for men to turn at his reproof. If they turn to him, he will then pour out his Spirit and teach them his words.

    Pro 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

    Note the order; #1 We must turn at his reproof, #2 if we turn to God at his reproof, he will pour out his Spirit to us, #3 through his Spirit he will teach us his words, he will make his words "known" to us.

    Therefore, man can understand enough to turn or repent. It is after we repent that God pours out his Spirit and makes his words known unto us.

    Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    Again, we first turn or repent, and afterwards receive the Spirit.

    No, the conclusion is that you assume your doctrine is true, when it is easily refuted by MUCH scripture. God does not force people to learn, they must willingly listen and learn from him. God will teach anyone who sincerely desires to learn, Jesus said to those that hear, more will be given.

    Mar 4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.
     
    #3 Winman, Sep 7, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2013
  4. Yeshua1

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    The truth is that we are all spiritual dead in our sin natures, bound up in that condition, so we cannot freely choose to come to jesus apart from the work of God towards us!.

    Amd sinner cannot choose Chose Chrsit and get saved by him on their own, as NONE make that decision freely, all sinners reject that offer freely!

    So the deciding factor to who is saved or not cannot be based upon humanity, as we all are flawed sinners, unable to chose jesus, so MUST be due to the Will of God!
     
    #4 Yeshua1, Sep 9, 2013
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  5. Winman

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    Just another Calvinist parrot

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Yep, same way paul and peter and John and the others were, and Spurgeon, Edwards, McArthur Hodge etc all were!
     

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