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Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by LadyEagle, May 25, 2004.
Is this serious? Pro or con this blaming our fleshly bickering on demons?
My battles are with the world, the flesh and the devil.
Between my flesh (in which I can find nothing good) and the world around me, I have more than I can control. I think we give way too much credit to the devil.
Dr. Bob, do you believe the splits or divisions in some churches are just caused by the flesh? Or could there be something more?
I agree (gasp!) with Dr. Bob. I think we tend to give the Devil way too much credit for what we and our sinful flesh are up to.
"From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?"
That said, however, the devil is our adversary and he goes about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
So, IMHO this is a circumstance case I feel. A lot of trouble in the Church could sometimes be flesh-inspired, while, it is also possible that some trouble is the inspiration of evil spirits.
We know that a lot of trouble on doctrine comes from those who are, "Giving heed to seducing spirits,and things taught by demons."
You don't think the spiritual forces of evil are at work in our churches? James 4:1 notwithstanding, what exactly do the scriptures say our battle is against - not flesh and blood!
Ephesians 6:12 - For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Thanks, and by the way, I don't think those two scriptures contradict each other. Satan attempts to prey upon our existing weaknesses and "drag us away" into sin. Our enemy is like a "roaring lion" seeking whom he might devour.
Satan is not omni-present. He can be in only one place on earth at this moment. I don't believe he is here in my computer. He has bigger fish to fry!
But agree that the devil is active as are his demonic forces. Not denying it for a second.
Just think the Perotti "demon in every bush" mentality is more harm than good. Most problems stem from the flesh and world around me.
Never seen a believe who got caught up in the "demon hunting" mentality who ever amounted to a hill of beans. Their new mission and purpose sucks all the spiritual life out of them.
I see that sometimes we baptists tend to get to paranoid of the charismatic obsession with demons, that we overlook the reality that there is no better place for evil spirits to attack than in the local church.
A church that is NOT under attack in some way or another, leads me to wonder if they are really in the fight for souls or not. It is possible that they have the protecting hand of Providence, however, it is more likely that they have left the battle.
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man:
14 but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
LadyEagle, what exactly do you mean by this statement?
I don't think the point of what LadyEagle posted is that Satan is attacking the church -- I think Satan is always attacking the church - but it's how the attack is being made.
Very discerning of you, Marcia.
So, what exactly do you mean by the statement? The title of this thread is "Exposing the Accuser of the Brethren" but I haven't seen much exposure.
To whom are you specifically referring?
The search for the demon of everything is misguided. While I believe demons are active, the answer to them is obedience. We don't need to cast them out or rebuke them. We need to surrender to God. Like Bob says, the devil gets way too much credit for our own sinfulness. He doesn't have to work too hard on most of us.
Marcia, the title of the thread is the title of the article I posted. I'm not the author of the article. But the link is there so you can read the entire piece. We are only supposed to post a few paragraphs with the link and not cut and paste the entire thing because of copyright laws.
Oh, thanks, I completely missed the link! My fault! ) (Now I finally got to use the cute little "embarrassed" icon. It was only a matter of time).
Okay, I read the article now. I agree that gossip, bitterness and fault-finding are unbiblical and bad news, but I don't think it's being done by demons. I think it's just from (fallen) human nature. Of course, Satan/demons can take advantage of our weaknesses but it's our own fault if he/they does/do (former English major).
I learned from this -- always check to see if there is a link. If I had read the story, I probably would have not posted here at all as I don't have much to say on this topic, and need time for all the other irons in the fire!
I think that was the point of the article. He doesn't create (for creation is not in his power) demons but he can use sins of anger, greed, discord, etc., as a foothold in which to gain a stronghold, or something along those lines. No, I don't believe there is a demon behind every bush either, but sometimes when there is more than meets the eye, the demonic influence could be a possibility, such as in a church split. And there is the part someone already posted about us not fighting flesh and blood. It must be important or it wouldn't be there in Ephesians.
LadyEagle, I agree with what you say here! I definitely believe in demonic influence in the occult, in false teachings, and that demons can operate "behind the scenes" in a church split. Satan would like to destroy churches this way. I guess the article to me just seemed to make it sound more like it was demons than people's fault but maybe I misread it.