extramarital cohabitation

...and this is the problem with America today. If society oks it,than forget what the Bible says just do it! With this reasoning we must obey civil authorities, so abortion becomes not only legal but the civil authorities can order you to have an abortion if it is the law. Our forefathers went to the stake to be burned rather than concede to ungodly laws can we do any less?

Ernie

[ June 03, 2002, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Ernie Brazee ]

 

Ernie, your reasoning abilities still amaze me. How in the world do you come up with a coherent thought that just because the civil authorities allow something, they can equally mandate the same thing?

You are allowed to drive, not mandated to drive when you get a drivers license. You must not understand the difference between "rights" and "duty". We have the right to bear arms, they can't mandate that you use them.

 

And what state would that be in? Certainly not my state. In my state if you want to be considered married, you have to have a marriage license. You seem to believe in situational morals. Whatever society accepts as ok, is ok with you. Well it's not ok with God. God never changes. And neither do the things He calls sin. Read your bible for goodness sakes, and leave your world view of God in the trash where it belongs.

 

Common law marriage laws exist, in varying forms, in all 50 states. Do a search on the web for additional information.

 

What value are Christian vows exchanges in a ceramony to Buddist, or atheists. Marriage is defined by the mental and obvious vows one makes in the choice of living together. If they wish a religious or non-religious ceramony for "public" show and a party afterwards, then great. But it a mere "show". A license is also for "public" information only. Even the IRS will accept living together as the requirement to claim a marriage.

There is common law which dictates that a man and woman that live together are by law married in the eyes of the law as well as all other persons in the State. This means that if your live-in boyfriend(husband) buys a home, in a community property State such as mine, the girlfriend (wife), has instant 50% ownership in the property. I don't know how any more clear that it can be that 2 people can't live together without being married in the United States. Therefore it can't be a sin.

[ June 03, 2002, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

Maybe you should be the one reading the Bible. See how the laws concerning sin "do" change. Otherwise, your husband would not be allowed to touch you during certain times of the month, nor even sit where you sat during the same week. You like most folks quote scripture out of context.

It is true that God doesn't Change, but what he dictates, what he desires, who he likes and dislikes, do change. That is well documented in scripture. It also means that scripture and it's interpretation can change without affecting the unchangable attribute of God.

Keep studing the Bible, one day you may realize why I support many ideas you can't understand at this point in your Christian walk.

 

This would be clearly a sin in older times when the State/Church were not separate. However, today the State says you're married when you start to live together. Therefore, it is not possible to live together outside of marriage in our Day and Age. No sin in the US. Romans 13 gives us that clear message that civil law is to be followed and obeyed.
The above is a quote from Post-it

It is possible to make sin "Legal" But it is impossible to make it right. (or, Not a sin)

 

sorry for the double post. I, like some others, am having trouble figuring out the quote thing..

 

You need to recheck the Bible, if your statement is true, then it is still "wrong" to eat shell fish, catfish, tuna. It is still "wrong" for men to shave their sideburns. And pile of other sins. Try again!

 

That's a far cry from saying "the State says you're married when you start living together". Common law marriages are only considered marriages if and only if the two people have been living together for seven consecutive years or more. There are Christian marriages that don't last that long.

 

I don't think the problem is with America, the problem is with Christians in America. America's greatest goal is preserving individual freedoms. Many times, it's preserving the freedom of a person to sin and make bad choices. If America's laws were to be based strictly on religious views, we'd have laws similar to Iran, where religion is the governing body.

God gave Adam and Eve the same choice that the US protects: to choose between sinfullness and sinlessness. I think it is the fault of Christians to assume that the law, and not the church, is the moral instructor. It is not, it is simply the protector of freedoms.

 

post-it said:

What value are Christian vows exchanges in a ceramony to Buddist, or atheists.

*shrug* Let the pagans judge the pagans. As far as we Christians are concerned, what saith the Scriptures?

There is common law which dictates that a man and woman that live together are by law married in the eyes of the law as well as all other persons in the State.

I don't know about your jurisdiction, but in mine there is a certain number of years that the couple must cohabit before they are considered married by law and entitled to whatever benefits and privileges that entails. In the meantime, I guess that means they are fornicating, doesn't it?

 

Still a minor detail in many States, when the two put their names on a lease (for example) the state drops the "minimum years together" rule and considers them married at that point. It has been upheld in court as a legal marriage.

This points to the fact that if a couple wishes to be considered married and act that way, then the State will consider them married. It is "INTENT", that is the important point here. It is what is in their heart that is the important point here. That is what dictates what sin is and is not to a large degree.

[ June 03, 2002, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

post-it said:

Still a minor detail in many States, when the two put their names on a lease (for example) the state drops the "minimum years together" rule and considers them married at that point.

Your qualifications just continue to beg the question. IF their jurisdiction legally recognizes common-law marriages as legal, and IF they cohabit together for a specified length of time, or IF they both sign a lease, then they're legally married.

And if they don't meet this increasingly long list of qualifications? (Suppose they have only lived together for six months and live in the basement of their parents' house.) Then they're fornicating.

In fact, it seems like an awful lot of hoops to jump through when you could just go down to City Hall.

 

Oh me, Just live togehter because it is state law, forget what God says, after all what does God have to do with anything as long as the State oks it.

Getting way off the point with the ridiculous examples of what constitutes "common law" marriage. Shacking up is sin, regardless of lease laws. DUH!

Ernie

 

Ernie, you are contridicting the Bible. The fact is that God says to obey State law because it is God himself dictating and ordaining those laws to the State Authorities. For you to say what you just said is a rebellion against what God has instituded.

Romans 13
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted

 

post-it said:

Ernie, you are contridicting the Bible. The fact is that God says to obey State law because it is God himself dictating and ordaining those laws to the State Authorities. For you to say what you just said is a rebellion against what God has instituded.

When there is a conflict between state law and God's law, God's law trumps state law.

No matter whether the state says you are married after you have shacked up a sufficient period of time, God's law says the only lawful sexual relationship is between man and wife.

As I said earlier, I really don't see why this is a debated question. Of course, there is no issue so clear-cut that some one won't try to do an end-run around it with specious casuistry.

 

The point was that State Law is Gods current law. Read the verses again... for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

[ June 03, 2002, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

well actually God's law supersedes state law - ONLY when state law goes against God's law. Otherwise its simply sorry folks yer stuck with state law. As to the co-habitation question.

My answer was just a nope before

Let me expand - if in a relationship - it is verboden or verboten yer preference. But circumstances may allow a single night in emergency cases, but must have chaperone.

Not in a relationship - again it is not a good idea - but Ive considered it a lil further; and have no objections to it; as long as its only temporary - It break a year; something is wrong. They should also not act like a couple and go out to events church or otherwise together, but rather as much as possible pay attention to appearances.

But if in doubt my first answer of Nope
still stands firm