F13 minuscules for gospels

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by McCree79, Jul 28, 2015.

  1. McCree79

    McCree79
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    To JofJ; carry over from a previous thread ......


    It was just for clarification on which f13's cite the gospels. I listed some that the NA28 says was for gospels. You said they are not based on you data. I just wanted to see what the UBS3 listed.
    Specifically the ones below, to see if any matched.


     
  2. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    I'll have to get back with you on this. I'm about to head home, where we don't have Internet access. See you tomorrow.
     
  3. Deacon

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    Ha ha.... I'm away from home ...and so have limited internet access.

    I'm deep in the back woods. of Maine .... Pray for me, I'll be climbing Katadin, trail-head of the Appalachian trail, in north-central Maine tomorrow with my SIL, my grandson and another SIL.

    New Testament apparatus usually provide the witnesses for a variant in this order: papyri, uncials, families, minuscules, lectionaries, ancient versions, fathers, editions, and Italian translations.

    1) Papyri are shown by a p with a superscript number.

    2) Uncials are written with capital letters. They are listed with the Hebrew letter aleph (א), a capital letter (Latin or Greek) or a number that begins with zero.

    3) Families are listed with the script letter "f" : f1 (=1, 118, 131, 209, 1582) and f13 (=13, 69, 124, 174, 230, 346, 543, 788, 826, 828, 983, 1689, 1709).

    4) Minuscules are written with lower case letters and listed by a number.
    Skypoint provides an online-assessable summary of the contents of f13 [LINK]

    Rob
     
  4. McCree79

    McCree79
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    Rob,

    Your list for f13 is what I show in the NA28 and what I quoted on another thread. However, JofJ showed they were not f13 with his data and that they all did not have the PA at the end of Luke.

    A book by Kurt Aland, fails to place them all in f13 as well. This is per a chart i referenced. Granted Aland may have left them off the chart due to not citing them in the NA26(I believe that is the apparatus and text the book covers)
     
  5. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    Okay, here is my post on the other thread:

    FYI, my data was from a Greek scholar friend who has actually studied Family 13. So it is accurate--directly from him to me to you.

    Checking my UBS3, the Introduction lists what they consider to be useful mss, and then lists the following as Family 13: 13, 69, 124, 174, 230, 346, 543, 788, 826, 828, 983, 1689.

    So, I'm still not sure what direction you want to go on this.
     
    #5 John of Japan, Jul 29, 2015
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  6. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    Hope you had a great climb. Probably no Internet access at the summit, eh?

    This Family 13 list is the same as UBS3, but with the single edition of 1709.
     
  7. McCree79

    McCree79
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    My only direction was finding out if 1689, 1709 and 230 are f13. Your post on the other thread(data from friend) showed they were not. NA28 shows they are.

    *and also determining where the PA is in f13. NA indicates it is in look. But you post you quoted has the majority of the f13 having the PA at *John7:53.

    *this was your statement......

    "PA has Family 13 text in whole or part, but located in loc. Jn 7:53."
    My NA28 does not show that.
     
    #7 McCree79, Jul 29, 2015
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  8. McCree79

    McCree79
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    Thanks for checking in the UBS3. Aland in a book from 1981('89 update), did not list them in f13. I guess he excluded them from the charts since he didn't use them.
     
  9. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    No problem.

    What I should have said about my Greek scholar friend is not just that he studied the mss, but he has collated the mss of Family 13 and many other Greek mss of John in reference to the PA. That probably can't be said of Aland, even though he is a major textual critic in the eclectic crowd.
     
  10. Deacon

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    No internet, very spotty cell access in most places near the park - only one cell tower.

    We climbed Katadin on a trail called Cathedral, VERY strenuous! I went with my 10 year old grandson. Turns out the both of were a good match, of skill, endurance, and attitude. In the beginning he needed encouragement, in the end I did.

    After reaching the trailhead the four of us split, my SILs decided to try knife-edge and I decided to return another way. As we reached the other trailhead we met two pastors who reached to top and said it was very tough. So we decided to take a much longer trail we crossed the flatlands climbed Hamlin Peak, the next mountain, and hiked down Hamlin Ridge. a 0.3 mile ridge that was more do-able, but the decision cost us a lot of time.
    At dusk I discovered that we lost our flashlight; we couldn't see the trail markers so we bedded down under the stars. We slept on a large, cold rock on the trail.
    It gave me a new perspective on Jacob using a rock as a pillow - you've got to be very tired but it works well.
    It was quite cold; I gave my gear to my grand son who slept fair but I shivered all night.
    At 4:30 am, light was enough to see the trail and we walked the last 2 miles to the ranger station arriving at 5:15am. Where they cancelled the search team that was planned for later that morning. Turns out that we were not the only ones late that day - but we were only ones not accounted for.
    Well every bone in my body is sore and I'm bruised in places I don't remember bumping.

    f13 will have to wait.

    Rob
     
    #10 Deacon, Jul 30, 2015
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  11. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    Sounds like a great time! Reminds me of when my wife and I climbed Mt. Fuji with some others--six hours up and four down. I was sore for days, but it was worth it.
     
  12. OnlyaSinner

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    Wow! Does that ever stir the (off topic) memories. Climbed Katahdin via the Hunt Trail in 1973 with my FIL, who had section-hiked the AT in NJ and most of SNY with his scout troop, and for whom the northern terminus was a long-time goal. My short-time goal was traversing the Knife Edge, and since our car was back at Katahdin Stream, that meant a round trip. Fortunately, Dad was so thrilled to be at the summit that he was willing to wait. A long long day (we'd day-tripped from my [then] home in Bangor) but a great one. Saw a big bull moose in a pond next to I-95 on the way home, 1st one I'd ever seen.
     
  13. Deacon

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    Home now - already planning for a second run on the mountain - maybe camp out in the park to shorten the hike 6 miles.

    Anyway this is from the H. Milton Haggard Center for New Testament Textual Studies. (2010). The Center for New Testament Textual Studies: NT Critical Apparatus New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary.

    @ Luke 21:38 [+ John 7:53–8:11] 13 69 124 346 788 ƒ13

    @ John 7:53 [+ 7:53–8:11]
    05 07 011 013 017 021 028 030 039 041 045 2 10 28 35 47 56 58 60 83 118 124 178 229 263 382 399 461 475 480 489 544 579 669 700 703 726 825 927 943 944 1005 1006 1023 1071 1113 1186 1190 1191 1195 1200 1201 1203 1217 1220 1222 1232 1235 1238 1242 1247 1251 1313 1319 1322 1341 1342 1346 1355 1476 1478 1492 1514 2322 2358 2372 2382 2399 MT TR b c e ff2 g1

    It provides some other variants within the text but the above covers the main text.

    Rob
     
  14. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    The NOBTS (New Orleans) data you list doesn't quite cover all the material. So, the info I previously gave on this thread is correct.

    Concerning 124, it does have the PA after Luke 21:38, but also has John 7:53 in its normal location.
     

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