Fairness to KJVOs

By comparison to the original language texts and a variety of other translations with necessary revisions such as has been done in the past:

"Newly tranflated out of the originall tongues & with the former tanflations diligently compared and reuifed..." KJV 1611.

HankD

 

I would just say that the bible has gone through a purification process, ala Psalm 12:6

Psalm 12:6
The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

 

James said "I would just say that the bible has gone through a purification process, ala Psalm 12:6 Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."

God's word doesn't go through a purification process, it is as pure as silver that has gone through the purification process. Psalm 119:140, Prov 30:5, Psalm 12:6 and the rest of scriptures were entirely true before 1611. God's word was and is pure for all generations, not just those after 1611.

 

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Examination of what and based upon what?
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By comparison to the original language texts and a variety of other translations with necessary revisions such as has been done in the past:

"Newly tranflated out of the originall tongues & with the former tanflations diligently compared and reuifed..." KJV 1611.

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What origional language texts, and exactly how is this determined?


It is interesting to note, that you quote the opinions of men you yourself have bashed, and have used their belief/opinion/statement as the sole basis and reason for your belief and approach, RATHER than the scriptures, to which is our ONLY authority to prove all things.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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God's word doesn't go through a purification process, it is as pure as silver that has gone through the purification process. Psalm 119:140, Prov 30:5, Psalm 12:6 and the rest of scriptures were entirely true before 1611. God's word was and is pure for all generations, not just those after 1611.
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Where is this pure word of God found today, and how is it you can tell and know? Or do you not believe that we have the pure word of God?


Are they all? Yes, I do believe you believe this. To believe this is CONTRARY to what the scriptures say about the words of God when faced with the evidence of these versions and all facts concerning them, in light of scriptural truth about the very scriptures themselves. Those that believe this, have absolutely no scriptural support, and in fact manifest their true belief, that no one has the pure words of God today and give the impression that God is powerless concerning his words, and also give the impression he is a liar.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

michelle said "Where is this pure word of God found today, and how is it you can tell and know?"

Same place it was yesterday, same place it was in 1610, same place it was in 1400, same place it was in 1000, same place it was in 500. Scripture does not change meaning.

michelle said "Or do you not believe that we have the pure word of God?"

If you have understood my posts, you would know that I believe we have the pure word of God.

michelle said " To believe this is CONTRARY to what the scriptures say about the words of God when faced with the evidence of these versions and all facts concerning them"

Not true.

michelle said "Those that believe this, have absolutely no scriptural support"

If you have been paying attention in this thread, you will see that we have been discussing exactly when scriptural support is and isn't needed.

michelle said "and in fact manifest their true belief, that no one has the pure words of God today and give the impression that God is powerless concerning his words, and also give the impression he is a liar."

Thanks for the complete misrepresentation (i.e. false witness). I believe we have the pure words of God today, just as they did in 1610, 1400, 1000 and 500. I do not believe God is powerless concerning his words, nor to I believe he is a liar.

 

If you will note, the Bible says the words of the LORD are pure - it does not say that the words of the LORD will become pure. Then it says as silver tried ... - this is a comparison and not a statement of what will happen. Perhaps thou shouldest studieth English more.

 

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If you have understood my posts, you would know that I believe we have the pure word of God.
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Really? Okay then, which version, since they are all differnt? Since many must go to the origional languages to determine the true meaning of the text, when the modern versions are to be more understandable in our language, and at the mercy of many scholars, and want to be scholars of today and their own interpretations of these languages? Is God the author of confusion? Does he desire us to be confused, and arguing about these things? Does he desire us to know whether a verse is his pure word or not? Why does God tell us every word of God is pure, and provide it, and then not preserve it and keep it and allow human fallibilty to override his power and providence? Why would God have you, or anyone else for that matter, become your own judge to what is and is not scripture? I thought God said his words are sharper than any two edged sword, and peirces a man's heart. If the power of God's word can and does do this, how then, can you condone those things that have altered or omitted them? You may be able to do this, and stand silent about it, or refuse to see it. I however cannot. God's word has been tampered with, and others need to be warned of it.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

michelle said "Really? Okay then, which version, since they are all differnt?"

Are you even reading my posts? From earlier in the thread: I just explained this. You are trying to combine two separate issues into one. The first is interpretational, the second is textual. A Bible can be without error in that it allows the correct interpretation of doctrine, regardless of minor textual imperfections. Consider the 1611 KJV: even the most vocal KJV-onlyists admit it had "printer errors" that were later corrected - so how can they believe it was "without error" while admitting textual imperfections? Exactly the same thing.

Come on michelle, if you want to debate, at least try to understand the position of the person you are debating. Otherwise, you're just wasting time for both of us.

 

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michelle said "Those that believe this, have absolutely no scriptural support"

If you have been paying attention in this thread, you will see that we have been discussing exactly when scriptural support is and isn't needed.

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Okay then. Please provide the scriptural support, and to where your belief in this comes from, that God has allowed human falliblity to override his power and providence over his pure words of truth, every single one of them? Where does God indicate anywhere in the scriptures, that every single word God has breathed out, would not be preserved and provided for every generation or in a translation? I really am curious to see these scriptural truths that you claim and believe are scriptural.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

michelle said "Please provide the scriptural support, and to where your belief in this comes from, that God has allowed human falliblity to override his power and providence over his pure words of truth, every single one of them? Where does God indicate anywhere in the scriptures, that every single word God has breathed out, would not be preserved and provided for every generation or in a translation? I really am curious to see these scriptural truths that you claim and believe are scriptural."

michelle: First, I don't even believe those things (so stop the false witness, and stop telling me what I believe). Second, If you have been paying attention in this thread, you will see that we have been discussing exactly when scriptural support is and isn't needed. Third, if you want to debate, at least try to understand the position of the person you are debating.

 

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Are you even reading my posts? From earlier in the thread: I just explained this. You are trying to combine two separate issues into one. The first is interpretational, the second is textual. A Bible can be without error in that it allows the correct interpretation of doctrine, regardless of minor textual imperfections. Consider the 1611 KJV: even the most vocal KJV-onlyists admit it had "printer errors" that were later corrected - so how can they believe it was "without error" while admitting textual imperfections? Exactly the same thing.

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Are you saying that every word of God, is not important for proper interpretation? Are you serious? Do you understand prophecy? Do you understand that every word of God is important, and beneficial, otherwise God would NOT HAVE BREATHED IT OUT and PRESERVED IT. God does not speak, that which is not important to Him and us, but that which IS, otherwise HE would not have BREATHED them in the first place, nor would HE have talked so much about them, and place warning upon those who would alter them. We are talking about the very words of God here Natters, not just some piece of literatures such as Shakespear. God's word of truth, the Bible is DIVINE, and God is the author. God is also the preserver and provider of HIS words. It is vital for us and others to recognize, realize and proclaim this truth, otherwise we make God powerless, and a liar, and our own testimony hurts or can hurt our witness in this world.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Sort of like the neo-catholic scholars of 1611?

 

You may want to ask yourself this, Michelle.

 

Exactly, Michelle. The problem is, you are trying to tell God that He did great up until 1611 (well, 1769 or so), but that was far enough.

As Cranston puts it so well, God did not retire to a park bench in 1611. God's word is alive, not dead, and will continue to shoot forth in new translations so long as God continues to give man the knowledge and ability to do so. Not just in English, although many of the new English translations are superb.

Why do you attempt to limit God to your personal definition of what He ought to do with His word, Michelle?

In Christ,
Trotter

 

michelle, I find it VERY difficult to have a discussion with someone who is so proficiently bent on misunderstanding and misrepresenting what I am saying, and throws in veiled insults on top of that.

 

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Second, If you have been paying attention in this thread, you will see that we have been discussing exactly when scriptural support is and isn't needed. Third, if you want to debate, at least try to understand the position of the person you are debating.
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I must have missed it. Could you either repost the scriptures, or direct me to the post where they were given. This has NEVER been done, nor provided, and I have continually asked you and others, but you continue to ignore it, and neglect to give it. I would like to see the scriptures that have caused you to believe these specific things I have mentioned. You cannot do it, cause the OPPOSITE is there.

Deuteronomy 4

2. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

(doesn't say interpretation, nor message, nor does it say doctrine. This AND the rest below clearly says WORD or WORDS)

Deuteronomy 8

3. And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord doth man live.


Proverbs 30

5. Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.


Matthew 4

4. But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


Luke 4

4. And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.


Revelation 22

18. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.


Words make the message. Words give proper, or improper interpretations. Words are explicitly spoken of throughout the whole counself of God. Do a study on the "words" of God sometime.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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Why do you attempt to limit God to your personal definition of what He ought to do with His word, Michelle?
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I don't limit God. I believe God, and what He has said about HIS OWN WORDS, to which the modern versions have been shown to be in direct disobediance and contradiction to them. Again, you should take off the label of King James Bible, and look only at the SCRIPTURES WITHIN.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

michelle said "I must have missed it. Could you either repost the scriptures, or direct me to the post where they were given."

Do your own homework. Read the thread. To sum up, scriptures are only needed when backing up a doctrine. I am not elevating my view on Bible versions to the doctrinal level. I don't need scripture to show that the Protestant canon is 66 books or that chocolate cake is yummy either. However, those that do elevate their personal understandings and preferences to doctrine, do need to provide scripture for their statements, otherwise their doctrines are 1. extra-Biblical, 2 require a second authority, and 3. self-contradicting if that person claims that doctrines should only come from scripture.

Once you get past these simple facts, and show me you at least are trying to understand my position, we can continue our discussion.

 

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Do your own homework. Read the thread. To sum up, scriptures are only needed when backing up a doctrine.
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And your "doctrine" is that God did not preserve, even in a translation, every word, and that the fallibility of man, and the errors of men must be accepted as a fact, and that even though one version has this verse, and the other doesn't, they both are the pure words of God, and are acceptable, reliable and without error. If they show error, then they indeed are not infallible, but fallible. Based upon your beliefs, as stated many times here, and your acceptance of these things, and excusing away of them, you indeed believe the above. Now I have asked you and others, to PROVIDE the scriptures that THIS BELIEF comes from. You continue to ignore answering my question, yet you just stated, that a doctrine, indeed needs to be supported from scripture. So, I ask you again, where is your scriptural support for the above beliefs?


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle