Faith a gift

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by psalms109:31, Nov 13, 2011.

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Faith as in which way

  1. Is Faith a gift by grace that only chosen person has by which they have done nothing to receive.

    9 vote(s)
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  2. Faith a gift for all, only those accept it are saved by grace as in their debt they owe is paid for.

    6 vote(s)
    30.0%
  3. Other explain

    5 vote(s)
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  1. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    Is Faith a gift by grace that only certain people can accept and who are these certain people and why? People in this scenario believe that faith is a gift which means by grace.

    Is Faith a gift for everyone to have and only those who accept it are saved by grace as in their debt they owe is paid for and why them?

    Please be peaceful I beg you, or I will ask for this thread to be closed my self, that is if it goes any where at all? I do not see anyone able to boast on nothing but Christ in both scenario's
     
    #1 psalms109:31, Nov 13, 2011
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  2. Ruiz

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    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,"

    "it" is either referring to both grace and faith or just to faith in the grammar. Thus, faith is either one of the gifts of God or it is the gift of God in salvation.

    BTW, the ESV misses the translation slightly in that this is one sentence, not two.
     
  3. Herald

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    Ephesians 2:8 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

    The antecedent of "the gift of God" is grace and "saved through faith." "It" does not appear in the original languages. It was added by the translators in order to better render the passage. Since grace is unmerited favor that can neither be earned or deserved, it is bequeathed by God to whom He chooses.
     
  4. Skandelon

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    So, is it Satan who bequeathes the faith in Muhammed to the Muslims, or are they just born with that faith? Why is it that God would make man born able to believe a lie but not his powerful life giving truth? Is not the truth more convincing? Is not the truth more supported by reason, arguments and facts?

    Why would anyone give the faithless unbelievers such an easy way out by suggesting that their unbelief is due to a failure of God to grant it? Calvinism, IMO, gives the unbeliever a perfect excuse for his unbelief, for what better excuse is there than God didn't allow me to have any? What better defense on judgement day is there for a rebellious man than, "God was against me from the beginning and made me rebellious from the womb so that I could do no other?" Calvinism only exalts the view of unbelievers in this manner. I say unbelievers are far far worse because God DID give them all that they need to be reconciled and they chose to rebel despite his "longing to gather them" and his "holding out his hands to them." They are without a defense and are truly depraved individuals who chose their own path despite the abundant revelation, mercies, grace, and goodness of their creator.
     
    #4 Skandelon, Nov 13, 2011
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  5. zrs6v4

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    I believe faith is a gift, but not in the way that it is generally argued. I do not think it is philosophical to say faith is a gift, but I do think it is to explain how it is gifted.

    My best guess in how it is gifted is that while everyone has given a will to express their hearts and believe what they wish (some atheists, some agnostic, some Christian, etc...) the gift comes in to play when God's Spirit brings the heart of a human from idolatry (a false faith if you will) to believe in Jesus. It is as if He directs, shifts, and changes the heart and the trust from sin to Himself. In that sense it is a faith, but I do not see faith as a thing absent from a human being until injected if you will.

    I believe in inability, but it is much like Jesus' inability to sin. The option was there yet it was impossible for Him to sin. In the same way it is impossible for us to trust in Christ apart from the Spirit of God. Until He comes we will remain at war with Him for worship of the flesh.
     
    #5 zrs6v4, Nov 13, 2011
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  6. agedman

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    Romans 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

    Be careful not to put the word faith in verses that use the word believe. Some would, and it is a mistake.
     
  7. Winman

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    Does this verse say God gives a measure of faith to only some men? No, it says God has given EVERY MAN a measure of faith.
     
  8. Rippon

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    You are hung-up on the English words of the KJV.

    Paul is addressing believers -- ones who have received the faith God has distributed to each of them --not every single person in all ages.
     
  9. preacher4truth

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    As is status quo for you, you completely miss the context.
     
  10. psalms109:31

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    God has given a measure of faith to every believer, not to an unbeliever. The unbeliever has a natural ability to have faith, not the saving faith until given saving faith by God through His word.

    Spurgeon tells us the three elements of faith first knowledge, then belief, then trust. To Spurgeon you couldn't do the second two until you first obtained knowledge through the Gospel of your salvation. The knowledge will bring us to believe and trust in Jesus and even not to believe

    "There are, no doubt, many at this hour in Hell who understood the doctrine of faith, but did not believe. On the other hand, not one who has trusted in the Lord Jesus has ever been cast out, though he may never have been able intelligently to define his faith. Oh dear reader, receive the Lord Jesus into your soul, and you shall live forever! “He that believeth in Him hath everlasting life.”

    C.H. Spurgeon
     
    #10 psalms109:31, Nov 14, 2011
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  11. The Biblicist

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    It would seem that every man has "faith" if faith is defined by the ability to believe in something.

    However, faith to believe in the gospel requires also a correct understanding of the gospel as well as a disposition to receive what is understood. In this sense it would appear that no human being has this ability by natural birth (Rom. 8:7; 1 Cor. 2:14; Jn. 6:44) but this is something given by revelation (Mt. 16:17; 2 Cor. 4:6) and comes with a new heart (Deut. 29:4; Ezek. 36:26-27; Rom. 10:10) which is "given" by the Father (Jn. 6:64-65).
     
  12. freeatlast

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    Faith is the result of hearing and believing (repentance).
    So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
     
  13. psalms109:31

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    John 6:
    45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

    John 14:24
    Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

    John 6:63
    The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit and life.

    Matthew 28:18
    Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

    John 12:32
    And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

    John 7:37
    On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[Or me. And let anyone drink who believes in me.” As Scripture has said, “Out of him (or them) will flow rivers of living water.”] 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

    Mark 16:16
    16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
     
  14. The Biblicist

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    This text continues to promise that every one taught by the Father will also come to Christ and will be raised up in hope of eternal life. Hence, none taught by the Father will be lost.

    The Greek text has the anathrous construct of "pan" and means "all kinds" or "all classes" of people. This is fitting in this context because it is Christ's response to the request by GENTILES to see him. This is a denial that salvation is restricted to Jews as a kind of people.
     
  15. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
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    All means all if the Holy Spirit meant what you said He would of put that in the text, but He did not, so we must conclude it being all. If it was a man saying all then i would limit it to to a man's point of view, but it isn't it is God saying all.

    I believe the scripture as Spurgeon say's and not place by doctrinal view in the text. I will say that Jesus has all authority given to Him He will draw all men, but they have been placed not only life before them but death. To believe in Him and live or not and continue to condemnation. This also doesn't happen until we preach the Gospel and tell them of Jesus being lifted up.
     
  16. The Biblicist

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    Have you had any training in Greek or Greek grammar? The Greek text does not have any word for "persons" or "men" here but only the term "pas". My Greek teacher was a universalist but yet honest enough with Greek grammar to teach us that when "pas" is found in the anarthous construction (as it is in this text) it means "all classes or kinds" or all without distinctions rather than all without exception.

    This is also fitting with the immediate context as it is GENTILES who the Jews considered to be UNCLEAN were requesting to see Jesus. Thus GENTILES were seeking to COME to Jesus a Jew. This was more abhorant to a Jew than Jesus speaking to a Samaritan (half Jew, half gentile) and especially a "woman."

    I don't know why you have a problem with this as the anarthous construction and immediate context demonstrates this is the proper understanding and interpretation of "pas" here?
     
  17. psalms109:31

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    Those people who translated the scripture don't know Greek and Hebrew like you do. God must of chosen the wrong people to translate His word to make a mistake like that. I think I will agree with the text the way it is.
     
  18. psalms109:31

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    all man being drawn by Jesus does not mean all will come only those who listen and learn from the Father through the words of Jesus which is Spirit and life. I desire that all men be saved, but only those who come to knowledge of the truth that can only be found in Jesus will be saved
     
  19. The Biblicist

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    The KJV translators were honest and placed the term "men" in italics. The italics were their means of admission they were departing from the Greek text. Other translators were not quite as honest.
     
  20. psalms109:31

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    I am not going to argue about words it only ruins the listener. This is what Spurgeon says, and you have the right to believe what has been revealed to you so do I


    Charles Spurgeon on All Men....

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There is MUCH wisdom in this quote:

    "What then? Shall we try to put another meaning into the text than that which it fairly bears? I trow not. You must, most of you, be acquainted with the general method in which our older Calvinistic friends deal with this text. 'All men,' say they,—'that is, some men': as if the Holy Ghost could not have said 'some men' if he had meant some men. 'All men,' say they; 'that is, some of all sorts of men': as if the Lord could not have said "all sorts of men" if he had meant that. The Holy Ghost by the apostle has written 'all men,' and unquestionably he means all men. I know how to get rid of the force of the 'alls' according to that critical method which some time ago was very current, but I do not see how it can be applied here with due regard to truth. I was reading just now the exposition of a very able doctor who explains the text so as to explain it away; he applies grammatical gunpowder to it, and explodes it by way of expounding it. I thought when I read his exposition that it would have been a very capital comment upon the text if it had read, "Who will not have all men to be saved, nor come to a knowledge of the truth." Had such been the inspired language every remark of the learned doctor would have been exactly in keeping, but as it happens to say, 'Who will have all men to be saved,' his observations are more than a little out of place. My love of consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater. I would sooner a hundred times over appear to be inconsistent with myself than be inconsistent with the word of God. I never thought it to be any very great crime to seem to be inconsistent with myself; for who am I that I should everlastingly be consistent? But I do think it a great crime to be so inconsistent with the word of God that I should want to lop away a bough or even a twig from so much as a single tree of the forest of Scripture. God forbid that I should cut or shape, even in the least degree, any divine expression. So runs the text, and so we must read it, 'God our Savior; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."'
     
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