Faith Alone Not Works

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by DavidsonBap, Dec 7, 2005.

  1. DavidsonBap

    DavidsonBap
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    For a long while I have thought about Christians, catholics and others who are brothers in Christ, who say works are needed for salvation. Sometimes in the middle of the night I agree. But then I read the Bible and I personally don't see that message. An example came to me. I was wondering what if a man is in prison. He is in solitary confinement for the rest of his days. He accepts Jesus based on his faith alone, but can do no works. Is he not saved? I imagine he would be.
    Another one was the thief on the cross beside Jesus who accepted him. He had faith alone, he had no time to do good works, he was about to die. Jesus said he'd be in Heaven. In my simple mind this clearly means baptism, good works etc. are not required for salvation. I'm not saying you should do them for other reasons, but not for your salvation.

    I don't know. This is just my simple thoughts. I think it doesn't hurt to do good deeds, but I don't know if one can buy his way into heaven. Do you think when you do a good work that in a way you are trying to get in God's good books? I feel strange about it so I just rely on my faith when I think about these things. Any thoughts? Thanks and God Bless you all.
     
  2. PastorSBC1303

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    faith = salvation = works

    works come after salvation to show of the relationship with Christ. works have absolutely no part of salvation.

    I think maybe you have a wrong understanding of works. In your situation of a man in prison who accepts Christ, why can't he do no works? A work for him might include sharing with a fellow prisoner the gospel or writing a letter to someone asking for forgiveness.
     
  3. DavidsonBap

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    In my example with the prisoner I said he was in solitary confinement. People on death row do not associate with other prisoners in most prisons. How can he do any good works? But yeah he may be able to write a letter. This wasn't my point however. It's okay. The issue was trying to show examples where somebody accepted Christ and could not do good works, like the man on the cross was another example I gave. I was just trying to say some people cannot do good works and so I concluded in my mind he still can be saved based on faith in Jesus.
     
  4. whatever

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    You probably shouldn't try to develop the rule based on exceptions like that, or like the thief on the cross. Most believers have opportunity for their faith to be expressed in their works. Salvation doesn't come by works. Works come by salvation, and salvation comes by faith.
     
  5. PastorSBC1303

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    My fault, I missed the point of solitary confinement....but I am not sure it matters. I do not think there is an example of someone who comes to Christ and cannot do any works.
     
  6. DavidsonBap

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    Yeah, most believers do have a chance to express themselves. I guess what I am trying to say is that works are not required for salvation to my understanding. I'm trying to say Catholics and some other brothers say it is required. I was giving examples of cases that do not permit it and perhaps than showing those brothers what is the answer in this case.
     
  7. AresMan

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    Would the joy associated with believing in Chist be considered a work?
     
  8. TaterTot

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    Can deathbed conversions produce "work"ers? hmmm.
     
  9. DavidsonBap

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    Pastor, there must be some. The man on the cross with Jesus had done no works. I do know. You are likely right. I suspect there has been situations like this. Maybe a man before he dies accepts Jesus with all his heart but it's too late to do any works. Like a man on death row. There must be some.

    I don't know. Waht the heck do I know. I just read my bible. I don't have a study bible that may explain these things.
     
  10. James_Newman

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    Luke 17:12-19
    12 And as he entered into a certain village, there met him ten men that were lepers, which stood afar off:
    13 And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.
    14 And when he saw them, he said unto them, Go shew yourselves unto the priests. And it came to pass, that, as they went, they were cleansed.
    15 And one of them, when he saw that he was healed, turned back, and with a loud voice glorified God,
    16 And fell down on his face at his feet, giving him thanks: and he was a Samaritan.
    17 And Jesus answering said, Were there not ten cleansed? but where are the nine?
    18 There are not found that returned to give glory to God, save this stranger.
    19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

    When the Samaritan was cleansed, he returned to glorify Jesus and give Him thanks for that gift. But the other nine weren't really cleansed, because their faith did not produce works, right?
     
  11. DavidsonBap

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    I don't know newman. I just read that to mean one gave thanks and the others did not. Maybe to tell people to give thanks to God, to remember he is the reason why you are well. I don't know if those 9 had any penalty for not saying thanks. I don't read that. I don't know man. Maybe saying thanks is works.
     
  12. James_Newman

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    I was being a little facetious, DavidsonBap, forgive me. I don't think PastorSBC1303 has a right view of faith. What is it about believing on Jesus that would spontaneously produce works?
     
  13. PastorSBC1303

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    Deathbed conversions could be the exception to what I said...but could not the act of dying after receiving Christ assuming others are around be a type of work that proclaims Jesus is Lord?
     
  14. PastorSBC1303

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    James, what is wrong with my view of faith?
     
  15. bapmom

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    The Bible does not say that they were not cleansed because they didn't turn around and give thanks. In fact, twice in the passage it reiterates that there were ten cleansed. And in reality, the other nine not coming back to say thank you were an example of unthankfulness....not a lack of faith.

    You can have faith in God and still not be as thankful to Him as you ought to be.

    serves me right for not checking before I hit submit post.
     
  16. AresMan

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    I think James Newman was making the point that the nine lepers were cleansed, even though they didn't return to thank Jesus.

    Some Christians do forget about their salvation (maybe they soon forget that they used to be lepers), but looking back at the time before you were saved (not out of needless guilt, but thankfulness) can sometimes help you to strive to bear fruit.

    Of course, this miracle of Jesus isn't completely clear on whether the other nine were "saved" or not, but I think James_Newman was using this miracle as an illustration of salvation: whether the cleansed lepers returned to thank Jesus or not had nothing to do with whether they were actually cleansed of leprosy.
     
  17. DavidsonBap

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    Oh man I'm so confused Pastor. I just thought salvation had do to with faith alone and not works. I'm a Baptist. Not a smart one. And now it's like works are apart of faith you are saying. I just don't understand this man. I thought Catholics and some other groups thought works were a requirement for salvation. I'm just so confused now because like if works are anyway a byproduct of faith than is not works in fact a requirement of salvation. Like if one does not do any good works than are we to say he is not then saved even though he may believe in Christ. This is so complex. Beyond me.
     
  18. TaterTot

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    hm...I guess, but thats not works in the sense that we normally see in scripture. But I agree, its hair splitting, and I think we do get the concept.

    As for the faith = salvation = works

    I always like to say we are saved - through faith - to work

    Theres more to it than believing in Christ. "In" is a much deeper word that it appears. We must believe "into" Him.
     
  19. PastorSBC1303

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    As far as salvation is concerned, works plays no role.

    Works come into play after salvation.

    Read Tater's post above, she explains it well.
     
  20. AresMan

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    Believe me, DavidsonBap, I understand your view. Some Christians still don't get this very simple concept. It is our flesh that makes us feel that we need to work our way to heaven and that we need to compare ourselves with others.

    I believe strongly in OSAS. The Bible is clear about "eternal life."
    I also believe in salvation by grace through faith alone apart from works. It is not your works that save you, nor is it your works that keep you saved. It is the fact that you placed your trust in Jesus Christ to save you whereby you are saved.

    Many Arminians don't believe in OSAS because they think that works determine their salvation.
    Many Calvinists believe in OSAS, but they base it "perseverance of the saints" still using works to ultimately determine salvation.
    I think that (some form of) "Free Grace" is what I see from reading the Bible.

    It is true that you cannot "prove" your faith to others without works because man looks on the outward appearance. Only God knows the heart.
     

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