Faith; Before or after salvation?

What does this have to do with:

Is it God who saved the "elect" before the foundation of the world.

or is it "means" and God that saved men later in time?

Which do you believe.
1. The elect saved before the foundation of the world?

2. The elect saved by God and "means" at repentance?

 

[/QUOTE]

I mean this honestly Bob. What about my statement of faith doesn't make sense or already answer your questions about what I believe. Really...that's the point of a creed/statement of faith. I mean, I think that statement answers your question(s). Let me re-read it to be sure.

Perhaps these additions are necessary:

And this one as it relates to free-will

I like statements of faith. When someone has a question about what we believe, we can say here it is. And this statement of faith in particular is very detailed and precise. I am a member of Berean Baptist Church, a Reformed Baptist Church in Georgia and this is part of our statement of faith.

I really hope that answers the questions.

 

I have to go to the gymn, but will be back later.

Please answer.

Can any person that has ever been born, be saved and go to Heaven, if that person was not chosen by God before the foundation of the world, to have his heart changed, so he will have faith and repent?

Are all people who were not chosen by God before the foundation of the world to have their heart changed, given faith, and repentance, are they all "lost"?

I do mean what I have posted too.

 

I did answer with my statement of faith on these matters. Tell me what about them doesn't answer your question. I hope you have a great workout.

 

Yes, you answered and its what I said to start with is Calvinist theology.

 

You asked me what I believe...maybe I am missing something.

 

No, it states exactly what I believe to be Calvinist theology.

Question 1. Can any person that has ever been born, be saved and go to Heaven, if that person was not chosen by God before the foundation of the world, to have his heart changed, so he will have faith and repent? According to the statement below, the answer would be NO, unless you were chosen before the foundation of the world to be elect, too bad.

Question 2. Are all people who were not chosen by God before the foundation of the world to have their heart changed, given faith, and repentance, are they all "lost"?

Answer is YES! according to the quoted post above.

 

Good. I thought the answer was pretty clear. If the quote (the 1689 confession) is your understanding of Calvinist theology (God's decree) then you understand it correctly and what I believe.

 

The first step in salvation according to Calvinist theology is God choosing you before the foundation as elect. is that correct?

The second step is regeneration, which is change of heart or "born again" is that correct. And this was decided before the foundation of the world, right?

 

I'm not sure about the use of "steps" it just seem foreign to my understanding as I read the Scriptures.

Let me see if I can break this down.

1. God predestines. We know this was done, from Scripture, before the world began. To some, not all, God predestines/foreordained to eternal life to the praise of His grace. Others are left in their sins to their just condemnation.

Man is not the master of his own destiny making the election of God and His will hinge upon his free-will. Man in his fallen condition hasn't the ability by his will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation. He/she by his/her own strength cannot convert himself or prepare himself for it.

2. God effectually calls. God calls a man/woman by His Word and Spirit. By Grace Alone God frees a sinner from under the bondage of sin and enables him freely to will and do that which is spiritually good. Yet, because of his remaining corruptions, he doesn't do it perfectly, nor only do that which is good, but also does that which is evil.

3. God enlightens the minds of sinners. When God quickens/makes alive a man who was dead in trespasses and sins He gives him understanding of the things of God, of the sinner's sin and alienation from God. God takes away the heart of stone and gives the man/woman a heart of flesh. "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Rom 8:30

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48

This Scripture teaches me that the one God predestined (in eternity) these He also called (in time) and these one's He calls, He justified (saved) and those whom He justified, He also glorified (future).

4. God does not force men. God has done all this without violation to the free-will/free-agency of man. God has made them willing in the day of His power. We see clear biblical proofs of this very thing, although it is hard to understand:

"For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done." Acts 4:27-28

I remember reading that and the images of angry crowds, of Pontius Pilate, and the Scriptures telling that story flooded my mind. I remembered Pilate in such turmoil over Jesus, even wanting to let Him go. But ultimately condemned Him to death. The crowds shouting "Crucify Him" each doing according as they saw fit, unaware of God doing what His hand and HIS counsel determined before (BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN) to be done.

"Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you," 1 Peter 1:18-20

And these words are so sweet to my soul, so very comforting:

"...he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."

According to the good please of HIS WILL....Glory to God. Sing praise to His Name all you elect of God! Give honor, and praise, and adoration to our great God and Saviour. Praise the Lord!!! Praise the Lord!!! These thing cause praise to god to shout out from my heart! Again I say, praise the Lord!!!

 

Well, you didn't answer the question I asked, I was wanting to know what is "regeneration" and what step is it in Salvation, but we will take what you give.

In the first place, God is Omniscient, Omnipresence. If he stood as a slain Lamb before the foundation of the World but it was

not manifested until these last days, it is no great thing that He knows who believes and who doesn't and is manifested in

these last days. He don't have to look

down through time and see who believes because He sees all at once. He sees my death right now and my resurrection. He

sees our glorification now. We have to wait because we are confined by time, but God does not, He is outside of time and

sees and knows all. So, if he sees who beleives, then He knows who to predestinate "to be conformed to the image of His

Son", If He sees who believes, then He knows who to call and Justify "by the blood of His Son". If He sees who believes then

He knows who to Glorify. So being we have an all Knowing God, it is not great thing that He sees who will believe that Jesus

is His Son. Ain't that great, that gives all men a chance as He said. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten

Son, that "whosoever" believes should not perish but have everlasting life. There was no time before this all began and there

will not be any time when it is finished.

Also, it makes all these scripture make sense without changing a word.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Bless the name of the Lord.

BBob

 

Maybe I didn't answer the question. I think my confession of faith does. At any rate, in looking at the Scirpture regarding God's choice of me and contemplating it, my heart erupted into praise! So i may have gotten off subject.

 

Yes, I had to give Him praise also for the answer I was able to give you to your answer.

BBob,

 

Soli Deo Gloria

 

Glory to God alone

and I am not Catholic................

 

Soli Deo Gloria is Latin.

 

= Glory to God alone, right?
Still was used against the Catholics or at least google says so.

 

Oh, I didn't know. I wasn't using it against you brother Bob.

 

indeed it is....

it is one of the 5 great reformation statements

Sola Scriptura
Soli Deo Gloria
Solo Christo
Sola Gratia
Sola Fide

 

I gave God the praise