Faith, Coming to Christ pleases God !

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by savedbymercy, Jan 11, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Heb 11:1,6

    Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

    6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Understand, Faith or coming to Christ, pleases God 1 Jn 3:22-23

    22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

    23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

    One of the Commandments pleasing in God's sight, is That we should believe on the Name of His Son Jesus Christ !

    Jn 1:12

    But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

    So these here in Jn 1:12 , by believing on His Name, did that which was pleasing in God's Sight !

    So again, Faith, coming to Christ pleases God : Yes the Faith we need to Believe on Christ, believe on His Name, or to come to Him, which is the same, it pleases God !

    We know this as we will look at a couple more scriptures . Now that Faith, Believing and coming are all joined together and equivalent, is seen from Heb 11:6 !

    But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    The word Faith is the word pistis [noun] is the same word for believe, which is the verb form of the same noun, and it involves coming [pros/erchomai]:


    I.to come to, approach


    II.draw near to


    III.to assent to

    Now lets look at another similar combination of these words in Jn 6:64-65

    64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

    65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
     
  2. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Faith, Coming to Christ pleases God ! 2

    Back to looking at Jn 6:64-65

    64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

    65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

    It is noted that believing [not] in Vs 64 is related to the coming in Vs 65.

    So its established that Faith, and Coming do relate and qualify one another as well as the Word Believe, the verb form of Faith the Noun pistis which means:



    That this is Faith in Christ and pleases God !

    But now here is the ONE BIG OBSTACLE we have, Those in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8

    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

    That word cannot means that they dont have the ability or will to please God !

    This translates into the Natural man cannot come to Christ in Faith, Its impossible, for it is granted only to those who are born again, putting them in the Spirit as opposed to being only in the flesh which by nature , thats all we are and can be Jn 3:6

    6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    Again, Only those Born of the Spirit can do it, because thats the only way any man or women are not in the flesh, when the Spirit indwells them Rom 8:9

    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Salvation by works argues that the lost must first "Come to Christ in faith as a saved person" to be "offered the Gospel" as if the Gospel is not for that purpose but for some "other purpose".
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    BOTH Calvinists and Arminians agree that the lost do not "please God" but where we differ is that Arminians believe the "Lost are part of the WORLD" and that "God so LOVED the (lost) World that HE Gave... yes really -- that WHOSOEVER believes on Him might not perish but have everlasting life... yes really" John 3:16

    Paul says the gospel is going to the unsaved in Romans 11 " 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them."

    The God of the Bible "came to seek an save the lost". Luke 19:10, Matt 18:11


    The very sequence you object to is found there - "light shining out of darkness" and those who are lost being converted in the very sequence identified by Paul - the same author -- writing to the Romans.

    Romans 10
    “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

    The very sequence Calvinism forbids - the Bible affirms! The gospel goes to the lost - those who are not saved, and not at all righteous -- and then -
    "with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."

    Without all the "extreme inference" injected into 2Cor 4 - this all works just fine.
     
  5. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    If the lost cannot please God, then they Cannot believe ! This confirms that those that are lost have the Gospel hid from them 2 Cor 4:3-4 !
     
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    The Bible does not say "God so loved those that please Him that he gave His only begotten Son that Whosoever has pleased Him might have everlasting life" as you have much imagined.

    Rather the actual Bible says "God so Loved the WORLD" of lost people. NOT "because being lost pleases God" and not because "God will only seek those who already do what pleases Him" as you have much imagined it -- but rather HE said it was because HE "came to SEEK and SAVE that which is LOST" Luke 19:10 -- the very thing you argue He does not do.

    Your circular argument that God only seeks those that already please Him because He already saved them - is stated nowhere in actual scripture. Rather it is flatly contradicted in the scriptures shown in my post - which is why you avoid them.
     
    #6 BobRyan, Jan 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2015
  7. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Those in the flesh, unregenerate, cannot believe on Christ as stated in Jn 3:16, because it pleases God Heb 11:6 which they cannot do Rom 8:8

    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
     
  8. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    5
    But you say faith is a work
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Please quote the part of John 3:16 that says that the lost, the unbeliever cannot believe in Christ.

    Then quote the part of John 12:32 where God says that the drawing of ALL - does not enable ALL to choose to believe in Christ,

    And the part of Luke 19 where "I came to seek and save the lost" is supposed to be followed by "and we know that won't work".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #9 BobRyan, Jan 11, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 11, 2015
  10. PreachTony

    PreachTony
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2014
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    0
    So in order to be saved we have to first please God? Well, then you've established a system in which no one anywhere can ever be saved.

    Christ came to "seek and save" that which was lost, and salvation come by faith, and faith comes by hearing the preached word, but you've also argued that the gospel is permanently hidden to the lost.

    How is anyone saved in your theology, savedbymercy? And don't just say "By Christ." We all agree salvation comes by Christ. Explain how salvation is accomplished in your theology, because your recent posts lead me to believe that you have a system in which no one can be saved.
     
  11. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, it is !
     
  12. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Please quote the part of Jn 3:16 that says the lost can believe in Christ ! The lost have the Gospel of Christ hidden from them that they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4 and they cannot please God, which believing does !
     
  13. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Believing pleases God, and the lost cannot believe !
     
  14. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    You quote the scripture Luke 19:10 , now was Christ 100 % successful in both seeking and saving that which was lost ? Yes or No ! Do you believe that any of the lost He seeks shall be lost ? Yes or No ?
     
  15. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    Did Christ seek you? Yes or No?
    Were you once lost? Yes or No?
    Was the gospel applicable to you? Yes or NO?
     
  16. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Answer the question, do you believe that Christ was 100 % successful in ,seeking those that were lost and saving them ? Yes or No !
     
  17. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    I already have. Search the threads. :smilewinkgrin:
    Now it is your turn. No searching here, for you have never answered these questions that I just asked you.
    In fact, here is a quote from Yeshua in 10-22-2012, 09:42 AM
     
  18. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah I answered, now search it out or you should have paid attention !
     
  19. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    6,058
    Likes Received:
    0
    Now since you say that you believe that Christ is 100 % successful in seeking and saving that which was lost , how do you account for the lost ? Many are not saved and on their way to hell !
     
  20. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    I found your answer. But unless you want to be publicly embarrassed you should just answer the questions I ask you.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...