faith, or daring God?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by robycop3, Nov 15, 2004.

  1. robycop3

    robycop3
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    7,573
    Likes Received:
    10
    I saw a recent Rod Parsley broadcast in which he asked for everyone in debt to write a list of their debts & send them to him, along with a "love gift" of any size. He said that on Nov.28, he was gonna have a "debt-burning" service in which he will burn up all the lists of debts, and that God was gonna take care of'em all. I told a friend that this ranked in tomfoolery with his "prayer cloths" he was hawking last year. My friend immediately went on the defensive, not about Parsley, but about having FAITH.

    I believe there's a line between HAVING FAITH & DARING GOD. Do I believe God can do ANYTHING? Absolutely. Do I believe He will do anything I might ask? Absolutely NOT. WE are at GOD'S beck & call, not vice versa.

    Matthew 4:7 warns us not to test (tempt in some versions)God. Sure, Jesus coulda jumped off the temple roof & not been harmed. But he referred to an already-existing Scripture(Deut.6:16) which commands not to do this.

    This same friend leaves his home unlocked because he says he has faith God won't allow his home to be burglarized. I've told him he's testing God, daring Him to NOT protect his home. I equate this with, "I'm gonna handle this seven-foot rattlesnake in front of the whole congregation because I have faith God will protect me from being bitten, or if I AM bitten, He'll protect me from any serious effects of the venom. If I AM bitten, it will be because my faith was faulty or weak."

    Should we simply throw caution to the wind? Should we not seek medical attention when we are ill or injured? Should we not do anything at all for ourselves?

    When I was in debt, I took common-sense steps to not get in over my head, and I was honest in paying off the debts. Now, whose fault would it have been if I'd maxed out three credit cards and couldn't afford to pay them off? Should I then expect God to make up for MY stupidity?

    I told my friend that God expects those in debt to do what THEY are able to do for themselves to satisfy those debts. Remember the story of the woman whose hubby had died, leaving a large debt behind for his family, whose son was about to be sold into slavery to pay the debt in 2 Kings 4? Yes, GOD rescued her from that debt. BUT...did He do it by making a pile of gold appear on her table? Newp...Through Elisha, He first told her to borrow every vessel she could from her neighbors, & to fill them from her pot of oil. When all the vessels were full, He then said for her to go & sell the oil, which I'm sure took awhile...and to clean & return all the borrowed vessels. Yes, she had to WORK to help herself and her son, doing what she could for herself.

    COULD God have simply handed her all the money she needed? Of course. But He helped her in HIS chosen method and time.

    NOW...How about those who comply with Parsley's request and find themselves going more deeply in debt? Will their faith in God be weakened, or will every one of them seek to learn more about God and realize he is NOT at the beck & call of either themselves nor that of Parsley? Or, will they simply say their faith wasn't strong enuff?

    My premise is this: I have faith God can do ANYTHING, but if He were to suddenly cancel the debts of everyone who complied with Parsley's request, then those people wouldn't be believing God by FAITH any more, but by EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE. their faith would be more in PARSLEY who seemed able to command God, than in God who wrought the miracle.

    I believe Parsley's thingy here is DARING GOD not to do something, and has crossed the line between faith and dare. What thinkest THOU, O other readers?
     
  2. AVL1984

    AVL1984
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    6,932
    Likes Received:
    3
    This is not having faith...it IS however "tempting" the Lord God. God doesn't state anywhere He'll take care of debt accrued by people who are irresponsible with credit, or are in debt. He does however say he will provide our needs.
     
  3. FBCPastorsWife

    FBCPastorsWife
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    4,271
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well put, AVL!!
     
  4. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hard to believe sometimes what people will believe.
     
  5. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    What Parsley is doing is enticing people who cannot afford to send him money, to send it anyhow in 'seed faith'. He's milking those who cannot afford to be milked! VERY sad indeed!
     
  6. bonniej

    bonniej
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    It may have been more believable if he had not asked for a "love gift" of any size. God gave us a brain to use for common sense. Sure he will supply when there is a need and every once in a while someone is blessed with a wad dropped in their lap but God just doesn't work in the same way he did in the OT, not that he dropped a pile of money in anybody's lap. But I am with the rest of you. We live by faith yes, but our faith must be of God and our faith should be as the men of old in Hebrews 11. If our faith is as it should be then we don't have to send our list of debt to anyone, we can pray ourselves or have other believers to pray with us. Where two or more are gathered together in my name -
     
  7. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    CASTING ...
    Peter 5:6 Therefore humble yourselves under the mighty hand of God, that He may exalt you in due time, 7 casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you..
     
  8. bonniej

    bonniej
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    AMEN AND AMEN AGAIN!
     
  9. robycop3

    robycop3
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    7,573
    Likes Received:
    10
    Thanx for all your responses so far.

    Isn't Rod Parsley the brother of Elvis Parsley, who had the hit songs "You aint Nuffin but a Ground Hog" & "Hunka Hunka Burnin' Fat"?

    I remember a while back he was offering "prayer cloths" to those who'd send in a "love gift" of any amount.

    I've also heard Parsley preach sermons straight out of Scripture. However, a little leaven permeates the whole thing.

    While I'm not at all down on teleministers and itinerant evangelists, there are two terms some of them use that immediately raises a red flag before me: "Love Gift" and "worldly". The former is often used by false teleministers while the latter is a fave JW expression and is being used more and more by the purveyors of bunk.

    I kindly asked my friend to please provide SCRIPTURAL JUSTIFICATION for what Parsley's doing.
     
  10. TC

    TC
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2003
    Messages:
    2,225
    Likes Received:
    10
    It is daring God IMHO. It goes right along with asking God to bless that hot dog and coke that you are about to wolf down - as if prayer is going to change the nutritional contents so that it is good for you.
     
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    RUN, DON'T WALK from such nonsense. It is not biblical and is dangerous (not just the snakes; ever deal with a banker?)

    It's a money-making scam.
     
  12. robycop3

    robycop3
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    7,573
    Likes Received:
    10
    TC...I THANK God for the food, not ask Him to bless it...but you have a VERY good and important point! God showed some of His power by performing, IMHO, His greatest miracle that was ever witnessed by mortal man when He fed a large crowd from one little picnic basket. ONLY GOD can make something from nothing. yes, I remember to thank Him for providing my daily food, drink, and air.

    Dr. Bob, I have never believed faith needs a gimmick to sustain it. What I'm praying for is that my friend sees that whole thing is phony as a football bat, and if he wishes to help someone monetarily he should start right in his own 'hood and church. He doesn't live in Beverly Hills, so he doesn't hafta go far to find someone needing a boost.
     
  13. graceb2u

    graceb2u
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2004
    Messages:
    683
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think this is very simple. The first thing is God tells us not to owe anyone. So if we follow God's word we would owe nobody. But I also know there are circumstances beyond our control. The first thing these people need to do is ask themselves how did I get into debt. Was it because of greed, coveteous, or just because it was something they wanted, or pride. If it is anyone of these then God might not give them what they want because he wants them to learn from it. If he just gave it to them then they wouldn't be able to learn, change and grow.
    We can always ask God for anything. But he doesn't always say yes. Then if we don't get the answer we want, we should ask him to help lead us where he would like us to go. Because I believe deeply that God knows best.
    Also, we do not need anyone else to ask God to help us. We can go to him by ourselves, humbly.
    We have to remember that our faith should not be in any man. Our faith should only be in God. He is the only one you can trust 100%.
     
  14. DavidsAngel

    DavidsAngel
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    The Lord gave us free will.

    The Free will to rack up debts, the free will to not pay them, the free will to have things taken away. We all have the choice in what we allow to be done to us. Not one of us can say we did not choose to be exactly where we are unless we are a slave.

    Never tempt the Lord not to take care of something. The Lord will take care of it, he will either help your though it, or he will use the incident to strengthen your character. Either way you will servive debt and be smarter the next time. I've had one real Credit card in my life when I was young. I charged and charged then died when the bill came. I paid it off and have NEVER had another one. Not saying I never will. But , i've managed to get 15 years without another.
     

Share This Page

Loading...