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Featured Faith plus right beliefs

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Michael Wrenn, Jun 9, 2012.

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  1. Those who hold to faith alone in Jesus

    45.5%
  2. Those who hold to faith in Jesus plus works

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Those who hold to faith in Jesus plus right beliefs

    18.2%
  4. Baptists only who believe as I do

    9.1%
  5. Anyone who has faith in Jesus -- Catholic, Orthodox, Anglican, etc.

    36.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    It is the perfect example of legalism, the legalism described in the Bible in Acts 15:1, the legalism which destroys the gospel:
     
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    Yes they are. They don't believe in Christ. They believe in a cult and all of its trimmings and rules. That is not faith in Christ alone. What is the teaching of John 14:6?
    Jesus said it was through him, not the COC, that salvation was found.
     
  3. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I will agree that the Item 32 is despicable and grossly in error.
     
  4. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    How can they be condemned to hell for unavoidable ignorance?
     
  5. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Oh, but the archbishop doesn't hold to that belief. He believes one can be saved apart from Jesus and the Gospel.
     
  6. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    The only way to escape hell is through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  7. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I believe, as Romans 2 teaches, that God makes provision for those who have never heard of Jesus. The Quakers believed that, Wesley believed it, the Salvation Army believes it, and others. It is faithful to scripture; you are not.
     
  8. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I'm glad God is in charge and not you. You are unwise to tell God whom He can save.
     
  9. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    You are unwise in telling
    God who He must save.

    Your posts reveal your true nature. They reveal you do not believe the words of Jesus, nor do you believe His Father.

    Jesus said no man comes to the Father but by Him. Jesus says those that believe not are condemned.

    You call Jesus a liar when you say that people can be saved apart from Jesus Christ.

    Your doctrine is contrary to truth. It opposes the Word of God.
     
    #109 Steadfast Fred, Jun 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2012
  10. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    No, I'm calling you a liar -- the biggest one I've encountered on here.

    Since you deny the truth of Romans 2, it is you who does not believe God's word. What I believe is the truth. It is confirmed in scripture.

    You are coming very close to saying that I am not saved. Cross that line, and you'll regret it; God will deal with you then.
     
  11. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    You are falsely calling me a liar based on your misinterpretation of Romans 2. And because you misinterpret Romans 2, it is evident you are the one who denies the truth written in Romans 2.

    Romans 2 does not mean people will be saved apart from Jesus Christ.
     
    #111 Steadfast Fred, Jun 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2012
  12. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I have misinterpreted nothing.

    Tell me, do you relish consigning multiple millions to hell who lived without knowing of Jesus? Is the thought of their burning and torment especially sweet to you?
     
  13. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Is your deceiving people into believing they are saved when they don't have a relationship with Jesus Christ especially sweet to you?

    Do you relish the thought of overthrowing GOD'S redemptive work.

    I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, and neither does God. But when the wicked die in their sin, they have consigned themselves to eternity without God.

    You question God just as the serpent did in the garden.
     
    #113 Steadfast Fred, Jun 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2012
  14. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    The Bible teaches that God has made provision for those who never heard of Jesus. So, it is you who denies God's plan of salvation. I, overthrowing God's redemptive work? Not possible. There will be people in heaven that you wouldn't have let in. You will fall down and beg forgiveness.

    Your comparing me to the serpent puts you over the line. God will deal with you. When it happens, remember who told you.
     
  15. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    GOD'S redemptive plan is faith in the l
    Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Romans 2 does not say man can be saved apart from Jesus Christ. You do err, not knowing the truth.
     
  16. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I know the truth, and I have correctly understood Romans 2.
     
  17. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred Active Member

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    Hardly.

    John 3 reveals that you do not rightly interpret Romans 2, for in John 3 Jesus states that he that believes not is condemned. Your interpretation calls Jesus a liar... Which is the exact same thing the serpent accused God of being in the garden.

    Paul also reveals that one cannot be saved apart from faith in Romans 3. You must have closed your Bible (and your heart) to those truths.

    By the way, your threats of God punishing me don't scare me one bit. GOD'S Word reveals that man is saved by grace through faith, not of works lest any man should boast.

    You can continue to threaten me with GOD'S wrath, but be forewarned, by the measure you judge me, you will be judged according to your pet chapter, which reveals God condemning many.
     
    #117 Steadfast Fred, Jun 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2012
  18. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn New Member

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    I am faithfully following scripture; you are not. That makes you the accuser and the liar.

    Many millions lived before Jesus was born. Romans 2 affirms that these kinds of people and those who never had a chance to hear of Jesus are judged on the use they make of the light they have.

    I am not threatening you; that is not my prerogative. But God will deal with you and handle you appropriately. Wish I could be there.
     
    #118 Michael Wrenn, Jun 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2012
  19. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Are there saved people in false denominations where the gospel is not preached? Yes, as Revelation 18:4 proves that to be so.

    Are they saved by the false gospel that is preached in that place? No! If they are saved they are saved in spite of the false gospel. The scriptures are generally read in all denominations and the true gospel can be read and heard when the scriptures are read and heard.

    However, all are saved by the very same gospel and very same salvation as God does not have multiple options; he has no other gospel (Heb. 4:2; Acts 10:43; Gal. 1:8-9; 2 Cor. 11:4)!

    Hence, simple faith placed in the simple promise of the simple gospel declaration by those whom God has convicted as sinners justifies them before God WITHOUT works. Those justified are regenerated by the Spirit of God and regeneration in conjuntion with the indwelling Spirit of God are the source of "good works" (Eph. 2:10). There is no such person who is justified but not regenerated and so there is no such justified person "without works" but that does not mean they were justified "by works."

    Justification is accompanied with works because it is accompanied with regeration but is obtained "without works." That is the balance of Biblical truth and that is the message of James.
     
  20. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    It is not unavoidable. They have the Word of God. They have no excuse.
     
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