Faith? Where does it come from?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SovereignGrace, Feb 1, 2016.

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  1. SovereignGrace

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    Now, all believe that without faith, no one can be saved. So, I do NOT want to be falsely accused of denying sola fide. But, if faith is innate, then a gift of the Spirit is innate in all mankind, as faith is a fruit of the Spirit per Gal. 5:22.

    If faith comes by hearing the word of God(Rom. 10:13), then how is it innate in mankind?

    So, some on here are saying things I don't quite understand and I am hoping they will help me better understand their belief.

    --Faith is innate, but And pray that we may be delivered from wicked and evil people, for not everyone has faith.[2 Thess. 3:2]

    --If faith is innate in mankind, then how can anyone die lost, seeing they have a gift of the Spirit innate within them?

    Now please, let us keep this civil, okay? I want to hash this out rasionally.

    FTR, I believe faith comes from God. But I want to hear the other side's points.
     
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  2. Revmitchell

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    The source of faith is described in scripture to come from more than one source and is used in more than one context. I believe that to apply the word faith in one single manner throughout scripture fails to understand the nature of it and is a result of the lack of or improper study of scripture.

    Faith comes from:

    We see in Romans 10:17 that faith comes from hearing the word of God.

    We see in Galatians 5:22 that faith is a fruit of the Spirit of God.

    Faith has different levels:

    Little faith -Matthew 8:26
    Great Faith - Matthew 15:28
    No Faith - Mark 4:40

    Results of Faith:

    Salvation - Luke 7:50; Luke 18:42

    Healing: Matthew 9:22;29

    Forgiveness - Matthew 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20

    Increases the church - Acts 16:5

    Commands to have Faith:

    Mark 11:22

    With faith being a result of the fruit of the Spirit of God (in only one instance) we need to understand exactly what that means. Does it mean that faith is imposed on us? Or, do we play a part in that faith?

    Walking in the Spirit produces the fruits of the Spirit. When we submit to God and His Word we are then walking in the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit is not an automatic given. We must choose to do so and can choose, as Christians; to walk in the flesh. (Galatians 5:16;25)

    Who is it that does have some faith but it is "little" or weak (Matthew 8:26; 16:8). Since faith can be a fruit of the Spirit and those fruits are dependent on walking in the Spirit or being in submission to God and His Word, those who have little or weak faith are those who are not walking in the Spirit as they should be.

    However, the context of the faith that saves is found in Romans 10:17 as that is the context of that passage. Faith (that saves) comes from hearing and believing the word of God.
     
    #2 Revmitchell, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  3. TCassidy

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    A lot of cut and paste but no actual answer.

    Faith is given to us by God via the means He has ordained. Faith comes by hearing the word of God and is a fruit of the renewing ministry of the Holy Spirit.

    Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

    Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

    This spiritual truth is so important that God said it twice just in case the hard hearted missed it the first time. :)
     
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  4. kyredneck

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    Why? Sola fide is not biblical.
     
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  5. InTheLight

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    This needs to be repeated, bolded, underlined, and increased in font size.
     
  6. BrotherJoseph

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    Hi Brother Sov,

    Many are quick to point out the scripture that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God, but what is often left out is who gives ears to hear? If all men have the same ears and the effect of hearing the word of God was faith, then all who hear the word preached would end of having faith in the word of God, but this is not the case, therefore it is obvious #1 spiritual faith to believe the gospel is not innate in men #2 not all men have "ears to hear". In giving instructions to his disciples, Christ said to them, “Blessed are your ears, for they hear; and blessed are your eyes, for they see.” And again, “He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.” And in the letters to the seven churches, the language frequently occurs, “He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.” The hearing ear, and the understanding heart, are the special gifts of God, and the evidence of spiritual life. In the quickening of God’s people, the first operation is to make them hear the voice of the Son of God My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, and I give to them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and none shall pluck them out of my hands.” We are divinely quickened by His voice, then given "ears to hear" the word of God when it is preached to us. A preacher can speak the words of Jesus, but only Jesus can utilize his voice to make alive dead sinners, "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live"

    This verse sums it all us, "The hearing ear and the seeing eye, The Lord has made both of them." (Proverbs 20:12), those who believe in free will would have us to believe they themselves make the hearing ear.
     
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  7. JamesL

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    I don't see any mention of faith in Ezekiel 11:19 or 36:26

    Can you explain why and how you think those are relevant in this thread?
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    Scripture says that faith comes by hearing the word of God (along with at least one other source) what it does not say is that everyone who hears it will come to faith.
     
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  9. Internet Theologian

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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. BrotherJoseph

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    If the only cause for one to obtain faith is hearing the word of God, then why don't all who hear the word of God exhibit the effect of having obtained faith? The reason is because to hear something you first have to have ears to hear. Can a deaf man hear? Who gives the ears to hear?
     
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  11. BrotherJoseph

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    God causes us to "walk" in the Spirit, "A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps" (Proverbs 16:9), and "O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps" (Jeremiah 10:23). If one elects to "walk in the spirit", is this election done so by the "inward man" (the spirit born from above living in the man) or the outward man (the flesh)? The answer is obvious, it is the former, thus it is God causing one to walk in the Spirit because in the flesh "dwelleth no good thing", therefore how could the flesh of a man elect to walk in the Spirit?
     
    #11 BrotherJoseph, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  12. DHK

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    Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

    Your position takes away all accountability and responsibility to God. It makes man a mere puppet in the hand of the Great Puppeteer.
    God doesn't cause (or force) anyone to "walk" in the Spirit. He commands us to do so, and we have that responsibility.

    Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    --The verb here is a present imperative. It is something you must do. God doesn't cause you to do it, or do it for you. You have the responsibility of walking in the Spirit.

    The result of walking in the Spirit, in obedience to the command of God will be the demonstration of the fruit of the Spirit in one's life:
    Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

    Unfortunately this is not always so. The fruit of the Spirit is not always evident in the believer's life. He does at times act carnally. He sins. And during those times it is the carnal nature that is demonstrated, not the fruit of the Spirit.

    Thus Paul admonishes us:
    Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
    --Here again is a command, an imperative to obey. It is not God that causes one to obey, but the believer that must actively yield himself to the Holy Spirit of God, and do so on a continuous basis.

    Here the ISV gives a good sense of the meaning:
    (ISV) Stop getting drunk with wine, which leads to wild living, but keep on being filled with the Spirit.
    --"Keep on being filled with the Spirit." That takes work. It is hard work to continual submit to the Holy Spirit of God so that your life continues to yield all the time the fruit of the Spirit, and also that you may have, all the time, the power of God upon your life. It doesn't come automatically.

    It is not God "causing."
    It comes through prayer, and immersing oneself in the Word of God. That is work and discipline on the part of the believer.

    Acts 6:3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
    4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

    Only then will the believer be able to exercise "great faith."
     
  13. SovereignGrace

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    DHK, I ask this in all sincerity.

    How can faith be innate and a fruit of the Spirit? I have a hard time reconciling these two trains of thoughts. If everybody has faith, would they not have a fruit of the Spirit?
     
  14. InTheLight

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    Scripture also says that Jesus "found faith" in people, and was amazed. If faith is ONLY a gift of God, and nothing else, then why was Jesus amazed that some people have faith?
     
  15. InTheLight

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    No, because as Revmitchell has pointed out, the word faith in scriptures does not have one monolithic definition.
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    Everyone does not have faith. Everyone does have the ability to have faith. What is it that provokes faith?

    1. Hearing the word of God
    2. Walking in the Spirit (submitting to God)

    Both of these are a response that is within us all to do as I layed out earlier.
     
  17. SovereignGrace

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    DHK says 'faith is faith' so that's why I asked him.
     
  18. BrotherJoseph

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    Brother DHK,

    Scripture teaches there are two men living inside our earthly vessels after we become born again. Tell me, which man elects to walk in the Spirit by faith, the outward man (i.e the flesh, also called the "natural man") or the inward man (i.e. the Spirit of God living in us)?
     
    #18 BrotherJoseph, Feb 1, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2016
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  19. SovereignGrace

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    The hypostatic union of Christ. Christ was also a man too.
     
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  20. Revmitchell

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    Scripture does not say it is a gift. Scripture says salvation is a gift. Salvation comes through the grace of God which is what motivates God to give the gift. Faith is man's response to the gift made available and it is a response to walking in the Spirit.
     
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