Faith

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Primitive Baptist, Dec 18, 2002.

  1. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
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    Is faith the condition of our acceptance with God?
     
  2. Rev. G

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    No. Faith is not the cause of our acceptance with God, Christ is. His sinless, obedient life. His perfect, atoning death. His powerful resurrection. His ascension. His intercession. CHRIST ALONE! Faith is the avenue of reception, the way we receive salvation.
     
  3. Primitive Baptist

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    By "receive" do you mean that faith is the means whereby we atually obtain salvation or do you mean that faith is the way we lay hold of or perceive salvation. If you mean the latter, I readily agree with you. Faith is the means whereby sinners are justified SUBJECTVELY, but only by the blood of Jesus Christ can we ever be justified before a holy God! (objectively)
     
  4. Daniel David

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    PB, I gues Paul was ignorant when he penned Romans 5:1-2.

    I suppose the other PBs will show up and deny faith alone also.
     
  5. Primitive Baptist

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    I deny that faith is the grounds of our acceptance with God because the Bible does not teach it.

    "If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." (II Timothy 2:13)

    "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. NEVERTHELESS the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity." (II Timothy 2:18, 19)

    I guess Paul was also ignorant when he penned it in these writings. Romans 5:1, 2 do not teach "duty faith." Through faith we are justified subjectively, and as a result, we have peace with God. Through faith we have access to God to receive the temporal blessings of salvation. So, what about these brethren whose faith is overthrown by false doctrine?

    Mature Christians will readily testify that there are times when our faith seems little, and doubts and fears set in. In times like these we must pray like the disciples, "...Increase our faith." (Luke 17:5) Or perhaps we must pray like the father of the dumb child who cried out with tears in his eyes, "...Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." (Mark 9:24)

    [ December 19, 2002, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Primitive Baptist ]
     
  6. Jacob

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    We are accepted by God only because he sees the righteousness of Christ.

    Jacob
     
  7. Primitive Baptist

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    Amen! Have you ever heard the saying, "Scratch a Calvinist, and you'll find an Arminian?" I think that saying has some truth in it. Both Calvinists and Arminians alike want to add stuff to the perfect atonement of Jesus Christ.
     
  8. Rev. G

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    1) Faith is the instrument by which we receive justification. It is not recognizing something that has already been done in the individual.

    2) All individuals everywhere are commanded to turn from their sins and to embrace Christ by faith ("duty faith").

    3) There is no merit in faith. Faith is a free gift from God (Eph. 2:8-9; Phil. 1:29).
     
  9. Sularis

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    Why does everyone say faith is the gift from God

    Its not - grace-salvation is
     
  10. npetreley

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    Faith is a gift from God:

     
  11. Primitive Baptist

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    Faith is not the moving cause of justification. It is a sovereign act of free grace without any motive in the creature. Paul said of a truth, "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:" (Romans 3.24) If faith were the moving cause of justification, it would not be of grace, but of works. "Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (John 6.29) "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Ephesians 2.8-9) Justifcation, therefore, cannot be of works.
     
  12. Rev. G

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    Faith is a gift.
    Salvation is a gift.
    Both are given by grace (God's unmerited favor).
     
  13. Pastor Larry

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    This is but another time that you invite a biblical rejection of your statement. You have tried this before. It didn't work then; it won't work now. The same Paul that you quote above says that we have been justified by faith (Romans 5:1). This discussion should not have to take place. You know what the Bible says. Why deny it in favor of your theology?
     
  14. tyndale1946

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    Wheeeeeeeeeeeee! :rolleyes: ... Here we go again!... Hello Pastor Larry and Preach the word... Just wanted you brethren to know I'm still here!... No comment!... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  15. Primitive Baptist

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    Romans 4 describes an experience in the life of Abraham that is recorded in Genesis 15. Genesis 15 occurred several years after Abraham left Ur, by faith (Gen. 12).Romans 4 does not teach that a sinner can "get saved" by believing. Why not? Because the example Paul cites for justification by faith, Abraham, had been walking by faith for several years before the experience described in this chapter. In other words, Abraham was already a regenerate man before "he believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousness."
     
  16. Yelsew

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    And who do you say that Jesus is?

    Peter replied, "you are the Son of God, the Messiah, to which Jesus said, "upon this rock will I build my church". If Jesus is the Son of God, can he be anything but God? What you just said is that God accepts God! Of course that is true, but that is not the answer to the question! God the Son said, "for God so loved the world, that He gave the world (us) me, His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth (has faith) in him (me) shall not perish but have everlasting life!" So the answer is Yes, Faith is the way we receive acceptance from God.

    We cannot work our way to acceptance lest we have something to boast about, and we would surely boast if we could earn acceptance by our works. So if we cannot earn acceptance, what other means is there to acceptance? Father Abraham and virtually every other bible notable was accepted because of their faith in God, and not because of any other thing or condition they did or possessed.
     
  17. Yelsew

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    Primitive Baptist said,
    What kind of doublespeak is this?

    Jesus justifies us, our faith sanctifies us.

    That is, Jesus paid the ransom that justifies us before God, but it is our faith in Jesus that sets us apart from all others, marking us for salvation before the Judgment throne of God. Those who do not have faith are sent to the corral of the goats, those who have faith are led to the sheepfold.
     
  18. Ray Berrian

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    Kal-El,

    I agree that the Apostle Paul penned the exact words that God desired to be written down on that first manuscript. Romans 4:5 does not say "the faith given as a gift by Jesus;" but the apostle does say, ' . . . his faith is counted for righteousness.' The exact quote: 'But to him who worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Also, apparently, believing in Jesus was not considered a {work unto righteousness}.
     
  19. Bible-belted

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    I actually agree with that. Pauyl does not seem to regard faith as something that comes from us, therefore it is not regarded as a work or something that we can take credit for. Johnathan Edwards said tha the point of Ro. 4:5 is "that God, in the act of justification, has no regard to anything in the person justified, as godliness, or any goodness in him; but that immediately before this act, God beholds hi only as an ungodly creature; so that godliness in the person to be justified is not so antecedent to this jsutification as to be the ground of it."

    Perhaps what might be helpful is to point to Ro. 3:21,22. There Paul says that jsutifcation is "through faith". In that passage faith is instrumental, not causal, in justifcation.
     
  20. Yelsew

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    Faith the gift given to us by Jesus.

    If there had been no Jesus, in whom would you have faith? Abraham had faith in God, perhaps not knowing that God is 3-in-one, and His faith was counted as righteousness before God. And there are the other notables in the Old Testament who also had faith.

    The Fact that we have faith in Jesus is because Jesus, The supreme Gift of God's Grace toward mankind became the object of our faith. Please note here that mankind has faith, even the heathen have faith in something, so what is up for discussion is the object of our faith, and the result of placing our faith in that object.

    Jesus told us the answer of what happens to those who believe in Him and keep on believing in Him.

    Many have faith in religion, and they are the ones who are deceived. Many have faith in the Body of Christ, the Physical church, but they too will be deceived. It is only through faith in Jesus, the Son of God, the Messiah that we are not deceived, and will not be lost in the end.
     

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