Fake Turkey Photo-Op?

You obviously don't care for President Bush. Do you have anything else you would like to discuss that might be somewhat positive? Your tone seems to carry quite a bit of negativity. Cheer up, Christmas is coming and you are free to celebrate!

 

In the long run, this sort of thing straightens itself out. I can remember the GOP laughing about how clueless the Clinton people were about advertising and "marketing" their guy.

But people liked him anyway. Maybe they liked him more because he wasn't being "marketed" by a pack of suits like he was a brand of catsup.

Mencken once said that no one ever went broke by underestimating the intelligence of the average person. Maybe so. But they have lost elections thereby.

 

Rather than the constant search for negative spin, it seems to me the importance of the trip was for the boost in morale it gave the troops. I'm not so naive as to think that Karl Rove didn't tell the President, "Hey, it'll probably help you in the polls, too", but it is the height of cynicism and negativity, not to mention Bush-hating, to look for a negative spin on the Commander-in-Chief spending 30+ hours in the air to land at a dangerous airport to spend Thanksgiving with troops who are across the world from their families serving that C-in-C. The liberal hysteria over President Bush makes conservative critics of Clinton look like a Clinton fan club.

 

I'm looking for just once, Bush to have the backbone to tell his handlers "Sorry, it's going to cost me in the polls, but it's the right thing to do."

Clinton had no problems with doing that. Bush seems constitutionally unable to do it.

 

Are you not wasting your time trying to cleanse Clinton's stained legacy?

In the middle of a terrible worldwide war, Bush brought cheer to the troops.

Contrast that with Clinton's refusal to reinforce and resupply the troops in Mogadishu, Somalia, which led to military catastrophe.

(Not to mention Hillary's bad performance this Thanksgiving.)

Clinton can never be made respectable.

 

There are pictures on the internet of Clinton carving a Thanksgiving turkey. Now I have to wonder if he really carved the bird or if it was just of photo op and all he did was pose with a dead cooked bird. Somehow, I suspect that after the picture was taken he let someone else do the real carving. Or, maybe the hot turkey dinner was already on the table and he just sat down and ate. The democrats seem to believe this stuff is real important, they just have a double standard of when to apply it. It makes them look very petty, and hateful.

[ December 06, 2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]

 

"In the middle of a terrible worldwide war"
Exageration can be an artform.

 

Reductionism and nihilism are the post-modern art forms that you seem to exhibit. Are you sure that you are not in France, Germany, or Belgium?

 

"Are you sure that you are not in France, Germany, or Belgium? "
Haven't you read the memo? The Netherlands is worse than those 3 combined.

"In the middle of a terrible worldwide war"
You'll see what I mean by exageration if this new 'Cold War' heats up into a real terrible worldwide war.

"Reductionism and nihilism are the post-modern art forms that you seem to exhibit."
Explain.

 

Clinton was a mess in his personal life, but he was highly successful in his presidency. When Clinton left office, the US was respected and admired. Now, the US is feared, and despised. Our allies and friends have been alienated from us. Ironically, Bush did what the Soviet Union tried to do to us for 50 years.

When the Balkans looked like another prelude to major war, Clinton used the right combination of force and persuasion to set things our way.

And if you compare the economic picture over Clinton's years, with Bush, you'll see that Bush has very little hope of even getting back to the level of prosperity of the Clinton years.

Hint... Do a Google search on "miserable failure", and hit "I'm feeling lucky".

But it was timed for what the White House called a "slow news day", and done for political reasons. As I said, I'd just like to see Bush do something for America that wasn't mostly for him personally.

Catastrophe? How many troops do you think died in Somalia? How many in Iraq, since Bush was crowing about "mission accomplished"? And even his own people admitted that he refused to give them the resources and troops to do the job properly. How many does Bush's mismanagement have to kill before it becomes a "catastrophe"?

And, BTW, Clinton learned from the experience, and didn't repeat it. Bush continues to throw US personnel into harm's way.

Seems she arrived and cheered up the troops. Probably, it was as political reasons as much as Bush's trip.

Nevertheless, like most Americans, I'm grateful for his work in restoring our economy and in regaining the respect of other nations.

I just read an article about Indonesia. Formerly, polls showed that the Indonesians were strongly pro-American. Now they no longer respect or like us. One nation after another.

 

But of course. The US was respected and admired all through the Clinton presidency. Especially during the first WTC bombing. And dragging our dead soldiers through the streets of Somalia. Not to mention blowing a hole and killing our brave sailors on the USS Cole while it was anchored in "friendly" waters.

Perhaps you missed the snickers of heads of state as Clinton passed by soon after the discussion of his privates on the Internet, but I didn't. (No, I didn't freeze frame the news video tapes where that happened, but I remember how utterly humiliated, embarrassed, and hurt I felt as an American. And how disgusted. But hey, he did get the Family Leave plan written into law, gotta give credit where credit is due.)

Oh yes, we were really admired and respected all over the world. I'm sure I forgot to mention several other dozens of examples where we were admired and respected on the world stage during the Clinton years.

For the record, I would rather see a Fake Turkey any day, than I would to see a fake statment made under oath.

 

No, CLINTON was worse.

NO!! BUSH is worse.

NO!!! CLINTON was.

NO!!!BUSH IS.

CLINTON!! BUSH! CLINTON!! BUSH!!

And while you argue, they BOTH steal you blind.

 

PA Jim,

I admit I may have missed it in another post, but do you have a kind word at all to say about the President's visit to the troops?

 

For a lot of reasons. Ending the war in the Balkans, which no one else seemed able to do. Getting the first real truce between the IRA and Protestants in Ireland. Getting rid of a brutal dictator in Haiti.

And yes, going after Bin Laden. Clinton took a lot of heat from republicans when he bombed Bin Laden's facilities in Sudan. (Back then, Bin Laden was still a hero to the republicans)

For all those things, the world was grateful.

But when he actually went after Bin Laden, you people were upset with him. This seems inconsistent.

You mean Iraq? Don't you read the papers?

Terrorism was a problem then, as it is now. Is Bush personally responsible for every act of terrorism on his watch? It's beginning to be very clear that we knew Bin Laden was working on an attack on the US, and Bush put doing something about it on the back burner.

So did everyone else. Because it didn't happen. Turns out that many foreign heads of state have had affairs themselves. The rest of the world had a hard time understanding what the fuss was about.

How do you feel, knowing that Bush first lied to us and our allies, then went on his own, then begged them for help in keeping order in Iraq?

That's humiliation.

He also paid off a huge part of the Reagan/Bush debt. And he got the government in the black for the first time since Carter. And he restored US power in the world. Not bad.

Oh, and the ease with which we beat Iraq? Weapons systems Clinton approved. The readiness of the troops? Clinton's doing. Thanks to his defense policies, we were ready with the best trained and best-equipped military in the world.

How's Bush doing on that part of his job?
This from Saturday's Dallas Morning News

Army to hit low for readiness
Four American divisions- 40 percent of the active-duty force - won't be ready for combat for up to six months next year, leaving the nation short in the event of a major conflict in North Korea or elsewhere, an Army official said Friday.

This is the lowest readiness since the last Bush was in office. You can't have massive tax cuts for the wealthy, and an effective army. Bush used up stores and equipment in the Iraqui war, and has not replaced them.

Yep. Europe was very grateful for ending the Balkan conflicts. And when Clinton attacked Bin Laden, even many muslims were happy about it. Because he was very careful to do it in a way that could not be construed as an attack on Islam.

I remembered and mentioned them for you.

I would rather have a president lie to us about his sex life than about the reasons he wants to go to war.

So it all depends on what you think is important for a president.

 

Not really. One soldier was quoted as saying that the men were more excited about the turkey than about Mrs. Bill Clinton.

What did he do to restore the economy? As for "regaining respect of other nations", I take it you didn't travel abroad much during those years. He was a laughing stock.[/qb][/quote]

 

LadyEagle
"Perhaps you missed the snickers of heads of state as Clinton passed by soon after the discussion of his privates on the Internet, but I didn't."
That didn't happen. What happened was that all those foreign leaders (usually having affairs of their own), blamed the Republicans and not Clinton for the whole thing.
Fair? No.

"I remember how utterly humiliated, embarrassed, and hurt I felt as an American."
That feeling wasn't shared abroad. The 2 only foreign leaders who openly spoke out on the issue were Nelson Mandela and Helmut Kohl. Mandela arranged that Clinton received a standing ovation of all worldleaders when he adressed them during an UN summit at the height of the scandal, Kohl described the attempt to impeach Clinton as something that made him puke.
fair? No.

"Oh yes, we were really admired and respected all over the world. I'm sure I forgot to mention several other dozens of examples where we were admired and respected on the world stage during the Clinton years. "
Ironically straight arrow Bush damaged the image of the US worldwide to a far greater extend than Clinton ever did.
Once again, fair? Maybe!
Clinton's private life was an embarassing mess, but at least he didn't go around gleefully dancing on the toes of every foreign leader in sighting distance. And yes in the eyes of those foreign leaders you thought were snickering about Clinton, Bush is doing exactly that.

 

Yeah, James Carvelle never marketed Bill Clinton - did he?

 

Barbarian, on Clinton:
Nevertheless, like most Americans, I'm grateful for his work in restoring our economy and in regaining the respect of other nations.

Deficit reduction act. Reduced spending. Cut the federal workforce to 1960s levels. And the debt went down. He even got us into the black finally. But you can rest easy, Bush reversed all of that. Bureaucracy is swollen again, debts is soaring, and spending is out of sight. Conservatives who object to this borrow-and-spend spree are threatened and ostracized.

I'm relying on the reports of Clinton in the foreign media. He was very well received in almost all nations. He was admired and praised by German, Italian, British, and Mexican leaders. He was widely praised for his work in ending the war in the Balkans, and for the Irish peace accords.

That seems to be a personal fantasy of yours. See the posts above.

 

Really? Other than the military and intel agencies, what did he cut?

LOL...No wonder. You are aware, aren't you that the foreign media is even further to the left than ours?

That's too funny. As many of you know, I'm very active in the Irish and Irish-American community here in the Delaware Valley and, to a lesser degree, in New York.

I honestly don't know that you'd find one person there to credit Clinton with anything in that regard.

That seems to be a personal fantasy of yours.[/QB][/QUOTE]

No, my fantasy is that we all wake up to find that the Clinton/Gore/Clinton admin was just a terrible dream brought on by that General Tso's we had last night.