Falling away???

Tuor,
The ways in which you twist Scripture and ignore plain speech continue to amaze me. You are ignoring the meanings of the Greek word for "fall away." I'm chasing my tail trying to reason from the Scriptures with you here, so I won't repeat myself.

Under your presumption, you have decided beforehand that these are folks who have believed the gospel. Yet the text makes no such claim. The NT word used for believe can also mean "to acknowledge." For instance, I acknowledge that there is a religion called Islam, yet I don't trust in it because I am Christian. The word 'believe' does not always mean 'believe for salvation" as you seem to assert. James 2:19 describes people who believe: demons! According to your "logic", the demons are saved since they believe. This is not the case at all.
I hope you see how you are distorting Biblical teaching and come to your senses. It's ironic that we're talking about seed planted on rocky ground which doesn't take root

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> If you go back and read the parable, you must ackowledge that the word of God grows in the rocky soiled heart and the weed infested heart.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But is this salvific? That's the key question. You assume yes, and you cannot allow your assumptions and preconceived notions to dictate what the Word teaches. The Bible refers to the Word of God spreading throughout entire regions (Cf Acts). Does that mean the land was saved? Does that mean everyone was saved who lived in that area? No and no. Reading meaning into Scripture rather than getting meaning from Scripture is called eisegesis, not exegesis. And it's plain wrong.

 

Tuor

If I may, I suggest that you look at Matt. 13:1-23. Here we see why the seed on the stony ground fell away. He has no root in himself; ( Some people make an emotional, superficial commitment to salvation in Christ, but it is not real. They remain interested only until there is a sacrificial price to pay, and then abondon Christ. MacArthur)

 

quote

The fact still remains that they were apart of the church for a time.
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This parable is tell us the type of soils the seed falls upon. The wayside, stony places and thorns are three soils with no fruit, no salvation. Also there are three kinds of good soil with fruit. Some produce 100, 60, and 30 folds. Not all believers are equally fruitful, but all are fruitful (cf.Matt.7:16; John 15:8)
You are right we may not know until they are tested. But God knows those that are His and they will bear fruit and there will be some type of persecution to come their way. I know that to be a fact. But I count it all JOY. Think about this, the Bible teaches that immediately at salvation we are placed by the Holy Spirit into one united spiritual body, the church, the bride of Christ of which Christ is the head. To say one has fell-away is to say Christ lost part of the body. John 5:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgement, but has passed from death into life. John 10:28-29 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and not one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. So if you are part of the living body of Christ you will not fall-away from Him. We will stumble and fall down but never away. My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus Blood and Righteousness.

Prase His Holy Name

 

Where in the Bible does it say that we definitely have salvation while we are still alive and kicking?

It says this throught the New Testament. God's whole pupose of sending his Son Jesus was so that we could have this hope. 1 Peter 1:3,5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begtten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Chrit from the dead. To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

This goes right along with John 10:28,29
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

We have this hope right now, right here on this earth if we are his child, if we are washed in the blood of the Lamb. These are God's promises to us. Eternal life, that no man can take away from us. He gives us the promises so we can be strong in him and trust to know that he will not allow us to be overcome by the wicked one but will redeem us no matter how hard the burden or temptation.

 

1 John 5:13 (ESV)
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

2 Peter 1:10 (ESV)
Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and election sure, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall.

 

Tuor writes <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Where in the Bible does it say that we definitely have salvation while we are still alive and kicking? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you serious? Have you never read Paul's testimony? Have you never read the introductions to the letters of the NT? A simple plain reading of the Word will answer your question here.

 

Galatians 4:1-7 (ESV)
I mean that the heir, as long as he is a child, is no different from a slave, though he is the owner of everything, [2] but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by his father. [3] In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world. [4] But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, [5] to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. [6] And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!" [7] So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

Notice here:

1. The believer is an heir of God. His inheritance is assured.
2. The believer was redeemed by Christ.
3. The believer receives the adopton into Christ.
4. Notice Paul's words: "you are sons".
5. God the Holy Spirit dwells within the hearts fo believers.
6. The Holy Spirit cries out for us "Abba, Father!"
7. the believer is no longer a slave to this world - he has been bought, redeemed by the atonement of Christ
8. The believer is declared a son of God!

If that's not present salvation, I don't know what is!

1 John 4:13-17 (ESV)
By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. [14] And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. [15] Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. [16] So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. [17] By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.

 

In Ephesians 2 we are called fellowcitizens with the saints. How could he call us fellowcitizens with the saints if we do not have this promise in our present body. Why did Christ come in the flesh and die on the cross, so we as sinners in the flesh could know that we have eternal life. Later in Chapter 3 it says "In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him." Once again he writes this so we can be strong in our faith and know that we have eternal salvation through him.

 

Tuor,

I am confused. Who do you believe are the elect?

[ February 07, 2002: Message edited by: Kellisa ]

 

Tuor,
Your uncanny ability to muddle and befog is just unreal, absolutely unreal.