False witness

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Aug 2, 2015.

  1. Iconoclast

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    Bearing false witness is a horrible sin.
    If someone practices this sin they will not be in heaven.

    How do you avoid this sin?

     
  2. Scarlett O.

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    I'm not trying to be silly here, but for most who are prone to do this, avoiding this sin will require keeping your mouth shut.

    The Bible says that out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.I also think avoiding this sin is going to require a self-reflection of one's heart and repenting of the evil in it that leads to false testimony.
     
  3. Iconoclast

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    yes S... you identify a key element of this sin.:thumbs::wavey:

    Do you think a person who does this habitually thinks it makes them somehow more important than they are? As if they put someone down it elevates them...or do you think it is like a pathological sin and indicates that the person might never have been saved at all???
     
  4. HankD

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    You can't, but here is what you can do:

    Luke 6
    27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
    28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

    HankD
     
  5. Iconoclast

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    Yes it sounds like we turn them over to God let God deal with them. Good verse:thumbsup::wavey:
     
  6. Scarlett O.

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    Yes, such as in spreading false witness to others. For example, let's say a couple is separated. Rumor starts (absolutely made up) that the wife caught the husband with someone else. No one knows that for sure, but Sister Susie spreads it - quietly, to only one person at a time, and with the notion that she is promoting a "prayer request". And to justify herself, she always ends with, "Now don't quote me on that because I don't know for sure, but it's what I hear and it's the only thing that makes sense."

    To people like that - they feel very important - powerful when bearing these witnesses against people. They have no clue if it's true or not. All they know is that they are the ones with the information. And disseminating it makes them sought after and important. Sister Susie, who does this alot, who could very well be saved, needs to repent of that.

    I hate to sound wishy-washy, but yes this scenario could also be true.

    Here is an example of a chronic problem with bearing false witness (I saw this on an episode of Law and Order, sorry).

    A lab technician who was running fingerprint samples lied about almost all of them. She hated criminals and wanted them all "to pay". So she embellished the correlation between the prints on murder weapons and prints on suspects. Many, many people who were innocent had been sent to jail because of her misplaced zeal for justice. Her behavior was NOT just.

    Someone like this who felt they were the judge and jury might not be saved at all. And the chronic false witness could be evidence of that.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    If this is true then there are a lot of people on this board who are in serious trouble.


    Putting spin on someone else view based on ones personal bias against their view in order to make their view look as bad as possible just because you do not agree with their view is a false witness.
     
  8. Iconoclast

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    I believe you are correct.....and false witnesses will not go unpunished:thumbsup:
     
  9. revmwc

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    Let me see if I understand you right, are you saying Jesus didn't pay the price for this sin? So do you believe Hymenaeus was guilty of being a false witness yet Paul says he was turned over to satan just as the man in 1 Corinthians 5 was. Both were saved but turned over to satan for destruction of the flesh that the soul might be saved.

    What about Ananias and Sapphira they falsely claimed to sell a piece of property for certain price and said they gave it all, but they lied to the Holy Spirit, were they saved before and then died in that sin so that they lost their salvation. So you believe they lost their salvation or did they die the sin unto the discipline unto death yet the soul was saved?

    Can a believer bear a false witness and still be saved?

    So by what you say Peter burst hell wide open. He said that he would not deny the Lord, yet he did therefore he bore false witness.

    Thomas said unless I place my finger in the nail prints and my hand in his side I will not believe yet he did believe without doing either that too was a false witness.

    Evidently by what you say Jesus bore a false witness here for He said only 1 sin was unforgivable, He didn't say bearing false witness, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. So do you believe bearing false witness is unforgivable? If so then Jesus would have been guilty of bearing false witness, so too would Peter have been and Thomas. Scripture doesn't bear it out, Jesus said all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven wouldn't that include bearing false witness? Because bearing false witness is not Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit!
     
    #9 revmwc, Aug 2, 2015
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  10. Iconoclast

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    Evidently.....you are not following the discussion. ...read Scarlett O for some clarity.

    All sin will be punished....in the sinner or the Divine substitute.
    Those not in saving union will pay for all their sins ...going into second death.

    Jesus died a covenant death for the sins of the elect.He is the propitiation for them....wherever they are found in the world.
     
    #10 Iconoclast, Aug 2, 2015
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  11. Iconoclast

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    Scarlett. ....I think we are starting to see how this sin happens.....your example of EMBELLISHED words...people adding to what was actually said...is clearly false witness.


    Scarlett O,

    Your posts are right on point. Sounds like you have dealt with this sin before.

    Quote:
    Do you think a person who does this habitually thinks it makes them somehow more important than they are?

    Yes...so even a professed religious person, using even religious words will commit this sin.

    yes...they are most likely frustrated persons who sinfully thrust themselves into other peoples concerns!


    Yes...I have recently dealt with persons who need to repent of this....perhaps ven seek the Lord for true biblical salvation.
    Quote:
    As if they put someone down it elevates them...or do you think it is like a pathological sin and indicates that the person might never have been saved at all???

    It would seem that is a person did this daily....they are not yet regenerated!
    .....yes
    yes...she had an agenda that was obvious to everyone!


    Yes...good example....she did not have any facts to prove what she thought, so as you say....embellished, lied, added facts not in existence.....SHE WAS A False Witness!


    the correlation between the prints on murder weapons and prints on suspects. Many, many people who were innocent had been sent to jail because of her misplaced zeal for justice. Her behavior was NOT just.

    Yes.....I doubt they could be saved apart from being effectually drawn to salvation...good post.
     
    #11 Iconoclast, Aug 2, 2015
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  12. Iconoclast

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    You do not understand the sin issue or the cross to post this....this is confusion.
     
  13. revmwc

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    Your original Statement:

     
  14. Iconoclast

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    revmwc


    Jesus paid the price for the sins of His Covenant people. That would be what I say......the others will pay for all their sins in the second death and this verse will apply to all who deny the Covenant death...

    Proverbs 19:5 - A false witness shall not be unpunished, and [he that] speaketh lies shall not escape.

    The false witness is a habitual liar....and scripture is clear on where they go;
    8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death
     
  15. Revmitchell

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    Some examples of a false witness here on this board:



     
  16. Iconoclast

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    revmwc
    No believer practices sin.....believers are saved from their sins...not in them.

    Jesus saves His people FROM their sins...mt1:21

    21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people........ from their sins

    Specific people,saved from specific sins......notice not everyone ever born:thumbs:

    I do not think you understand it still as you refused to listen to solid teaching on it.:thumbsup:


    You do not know peoples hearts, you do not know who are believers....you are speculating. God will judge all carnal goats...they are carnal in the heart.

    until you listen to those messages...there is no point to answer these speculations...the answers were already given...if you do not want it...the blood be upon your own head....

    Paul did not say they were saved....In fact he said this-
    14 Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:

    15 Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words

    he named this evil worker and also had reported he was in peril among FALSE BRETHREN...
    26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;
    I understand what he meant by in perils among FALSE BRETHREN.


    No..not at all...it is this;

    6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
     
  17. Iconoclast

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    These examples are accurate observations of actual events....
    To say that God cannot change someones beliefs is a false statement based on unbelief in what the Spirit actually does.

    when a person turns from biblical revelation on the judgment of God...then speaks about a God who does not do those things, then they have departed from biblical revelation and invented a god who does what theat man wants him to do, instead of the what the biblical God has revealed that he does.

    if someone denies God's election...they invent a god who is not the one in scripture...just the same as someone who denies that God destroyed the world of the ungodly could not be the God of Jn 3;16....nice try though
     
    #17 Iconoclast, Aug 2, 2015
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  18. Revmitchell

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    No one said that God cannot change someone's beliefs. Thanks for adding to the previous list.

    I am sorry to be so blunt but you come across as almost delusional at times. You start threads like this but are one of the worst people on this board for personal attacks. Maybe you should worry less about who is being a false witness and spend more time worrying about your own walk. We all tend to respond to each other in unkind ways but it is just odd when there are a few, like yourself, who act as if you are above all that and have room to condemn others. The fact is you are an example of everything you point at others for.
     
    #18 Revmitchell, Aug 2, 2015
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  19. Iconoclast

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    You are not being truthful here....it was said quite directly....look it up:thumbs:

    of course you would need to understand that any truth that a person receives comes from God allowing Him to learn it...some have denied this...calling it mystical!
     
    #19 Iconoclast, Aug 2, 2015
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  20. quantumfaith

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    Icon, where is the demarcation line defined by "habitual"? Surely there must be some value which crosses that line? Habitual false witness, habitual stealing, habitual lust and the list continues. Does not the hearts of even those born from above deal with exactly the same things that it did prior to salvation? Is the stating of this bearing false witness?
     

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