fast facts-Jerry Falwell

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Boanerges, Mar 5, 2006.

  1. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Since there has been a discussion about Mr Falwell, I decided to check out some of the statements made. Here is what I found:

    Dr. Jerry Falwell- CNP Board of Governors 1982,1998, member 1984, 1988, 1996, 1998; President and co-founder of the Moral Majority in 1979 and its successor, the Liberty Federation; Founder and Pastor of Thomas Road Baptist Church of Lynchburg, VA, president of the "Old Time Gospel Hour", Chancellor of Liberty Baptist College; chancellor of the Liberty University School of LifeLong Learning, a correspondence school; President, Jerry Falwell Minisistries 1; founded the Elim Home for Alcoholics and Liberty Godparent Home for Unwed Mothers; Member of Ed McAteer 's Religious Roundtable Council of 56 2 See: Religious Roundtable ; Signed Evangelicals and Catholics Together II;

    March 20, 1987, Falwell announced charismatic PTL conglomerate had been turned over to him by Jim Bakker, Falwell personally chose new board members including new evangelicals such as [CNP's] Ben Armstrong of the National Association of Religious Broadcasters, Southern Baptists such as [CNP] Sam Moore of Thomas Nelson Publishers, Dr. Baily Smith and Richard Lee Common, and charismatics Richard Dortch, Rex Humbard, and [CNP's] James Watt. 3

    The Moral Majority story is that Robert Billings of the National Christian Action Committee invited Falwell to a meeting with Howard Phillipss, Richard Viguerie, Paul Weyrich and Ed McAteer who had by then set up the Religious Roundtable. They wanted Falwell to spearhead a visible Christian organization that could apply pressure to the GOP. 4

    2/21/86 Christianity Today, Falwell stated that Catholics made up the largest constituency (30%) in Moral Majority. At that time Moral Majority had 500,000 active contributors and a mailing list of six million people. Falwell was also one of the speakers at the 4/80 "Washington for Jesus" rally. Fellow speakers were Catholic priests John Bertolucci, John Randall, and Michael Scanlon. 5.

    The 7/24/88 Washington Post Magazine carried a long story on Dr. Falwell and stated the following:

    "He has changed his mind about attending parties where booze is served, about sharing the stage with Catholics or Jews or people who speak in tongues. He now says God answers the prayers of all people, no matter their faith. For this, hardened fundamentalists have attacked him. He has even changed his mind about who can go the Heaven -- with not only fundamentalists but Catholics and other Christians of all faiths now having a chance" 6

    In 6/85, one of Moon's organizations held several rallies, one of which was in Washington, D.C. Falwell joined a group of religious leaders at a Washington news conference dubbed as a "welcome home" party for Moon, who had just been released from prison after serving 13 months for evading federal income taxes. At this conference, Falwell suggested that President Ronald Reagan issue a pardon to clear Moon's name. 7

    In December of 1995 in Montevideo, Uruguay, Falwell spoke at a conference sponsored by Moon's Inter Religious Federation for World Peace and Washington Times Foundation, and titled, "Christian Ecumenism in the Americas: Toward One Christian Family Under God." In his speech, Falwell said, "It is my observation and personal conviction that conferences and seminars like this one can be very beneficial for building bridges of communication." ("Bridges of communication"? What does that mean! Christ didn't say, "Go into all the world and build bridges of communion." He commands us to "preach the gospel"! Any lesser "communication" is compromise and a denial of our Lord.) 8

    According to Cornerstone magazine, "In 1994, Jerry Falwell quietly accepted a $3.5 million donation from a Unification Church front group, the Women's Federation for World Peace, to help bail out Falwell's then-insolvent Liberty University." The magazine also reported that Robert Parry, a journalist for I.F. Magazine and the Los Angeles Times, revealed that Moon had funneled the donation through the Christian Heritage Foundation (CHF), a non-profit group that had bought the school's debt, which at the time amounted to $73 million. The reporter had used an IRS tax form to track the donation's source. Rumors about the Unification Church-Liberty University relationship had circulated for months. 9

    Promise Keepers national spokesman Mark DeMoss is chief of staff to Jerry Falwell. DeMoss was the administrator of the "Christian Embassy" in Jerusalem.


    People are welcome to put forth proof of any error in the above excerpts.
     
  2. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    First I think this subject is out of line since the earlier post on this matter was shut down due to the gossip and mudslinging. So it is my opinion that this thread be shut down as well. For several reasons:

    1. You give no source or sources for your information. It is just presented as fact with no supporting evidence.

    2. There are two sides to every story. I would love to know the full story about the Moon event(s) and I will research them.

    3. The events around PTL are well known. It certainly was not one of Falwell's better moments. However we must keep in mind that Falwell had been invited in. When things were not done the way others wanted it they turned on him. He should have stayed out of the Bakker's mess.

    4. The so-called Catholic connection is nothing unusual for those deeply involved in political activism. I hope those who are critical of Falwell here will be critical of others such as James Dobson (and his promotion of Dr Laura in the late '90s) and his promotion of Catholics in office (etc). This is why I disagree with Falwell's political activism. It causes doctrinal compromise. Whether it is Jerry Falwell, James Dobson, Richard Land, or Pat Robertson, political activism only serves to hurt Christians, the church, and its image. On this I strongly suggest Dr John MacArthur's little book "Can God Bless America?".

    5. The article states, "In his speech, Falwell said, "It is my observation and personal conviction that conferences and seminars like this one can be very beneficial for building bridges of communication." ("Bridges of communication"? What does that mean!". What that means should be clear. However since a very, very limited portion of Falwell's remarks were quoted we have no way of knowing all of what he said and thus being able to place this comment in context. However we must have "bridges of communication" with Catholics, Muslims, Hindus and others in order to talk to them about Jesus. Just preaching at them is not enough. Personal, person to person, evangelism is much more effect than large scale evangelism. However since I can't put Falwell's comments into context I can't know if that is what Falwell meant.

    6. The article states, "According to Cornerstone magazine, "In 1994, Jerry Falwell quietly accepted a $3.5 million donation from a Unification Church front group, the Women's Federation for World Peace, to help bail out Falwell's then-insolvent Liberty University.""

    Please provide evidence to supportthis claim. We have seen how the media can distort, twist, and even lie and misrepresent the facts (Christian media is no exception). Look at the recent Jerusalem Post article that said Falwell had accepted dual covenant theology. There were no facts supporting the story yet it ran and many will, no doubt, use that article to support their distrust and hatred of Jerry Falwell (even though the article is false).


    Finally you said, "People are welcome to put forth proof of any error in the above excerpts". The problem is that you have not provided your source(s). How can we verify your sources if you don't provide them? We can't check bias, mis-statements, statements quoted out of context, one-sided reporting, etc, etc.

    You know if I were a betting man, and I am not, I would bet that we could pick apart (isolate and take out of context) some things you have said/done and try to make you look bad (just as you are doing with Falwell). Sure it is easy for some to do that to Falwell since he is a public figure and makes alot of mistakes and mis-speaks. However you, and others, need to make sure that your critical attitude towards Falwell is justified. For that reason you need to make sure that (a) you have a pure motive, (b) you have checked your sources and know them to be accurate, (c) you have heard Falwell's explanation of any problems. Then, and only then, can you correctly point fingers at Falwell. You don't have all the facts and you have provide no way for us to check your sources/facts.

    This thread should be shut-down since it is nothing but gossip.

    Martin.
     
  3. mcdirector

    mcdirector
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    8,292
    Likes Received:
    10
    oooo a link source or sources would be nice. I'm not a big Falwell fan, but I agree with Martin.
     
  4. Paul33

    Paul33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    2,434
    Likes Received:
    0
    My personal encounters with Falwell have left me with the impression that Falwell loves the Lord and is humble and endearing. You can't not like him when you meet him.

    Like any ministry, he will make decisions that we may or may not agree with. But to string together a list of events without context can really distort the truth.

    Each of us must give an account to the Lord for the things we do. I'll let Jerry Falwell answer to God, and in the mean time admire him for all of the good he has done sacrifically and humbly to preach the good news of Jesus Christ around the world.
     
  5. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    First of all Martin, would you quit whining about shutting down threads. Secondly, it is my belierf that Falwell, as well as Dobson and others need to think twice about the moves that they make and the things that they say using scripture as the baseline.Believe me, I have NO favorite horses in this race, and I have nothing personal against Mr Falwell, and he probably is a very nice guy. My gripe is with the luke warm, politically oriented, laodocean church. It is time to tighten things up.
     
  6. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    Boanerges:
    ==Nobody here is "whining" about anything. I am just calling a duck a duck. You are laying forth accusations that you have not proven with reliable sources. That is gossip, which is wrong. It would be unacceptable regardless who the target of the gossip is.

    What is the source(s) of your information? Please provide a link.
    ________________________________________

    ==I fully agree and I believe you should allow us to see your source(s).

    _________________________________________

    ==You have nothing against Falwell? Could have fooled me. You write/post an article containing all sorts of serious accusations against Mr Falwell and then you provide no sources so we can check those sources. That sounds, to me, like you do have a problem with Falwell. I agree with you that politics is damaging the church and I oppose Falwell's (Mohler's, Dobson's, Robertson's, etc) political activism. While I am very conservative I know, based on Scripture, that politics is not the answer to America's problems. However I also know that the article you used or sourced is very one-sided (at best). That is why I am asking you to provide your source link(s).

    Martin.
     
  7. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would agree with Martin.In addition I would ask two questions;the first being is are you without fault of any kind?the second what fruit have you borne that is comparable?
     
  8. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Teachers (especially heads of Christian universities) are held to a higher standard. It wasn't an article, but a quick profile of him and others involved with the Council for National Policy. I will try to find the link and post it.In the meantime, you both are welcome to post any proof that shows the information to be incorrect.
     
  9. DHK

    DHK
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    134
    It is the personal attack of others "whining" that gets things shut down. If you can't discuss subjects in a civil tone then don't post.
    False accusations are also slander and subject to libel and/or lawsuits, even on a board like this. Watch what you say. Most of all provide evidence. If you can't provide a link to your accusations back off. This is one of the complaints some have had about the OP
    I don't see any Ladodicean Church. Falwell is the pastor of Liberty Baptist Church as far as I know. There is no Laodicean Church there that I know of. Address the issue at hand. Be specific.
    DHK
     
  10. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't start the other thread, nor did I get involved with the accusations about DCT in reference to Mr Falwell.
     
  11. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    Boanerges:
    ==I don't agree with that (at least not in the sense you seem to be using it). Holding someone to a higher standard does not mean that they should be perfect, without fault or failure, nor does it mean we can string together a bunch of one-sided accusations against them and be justified in doing so. I pointed out the serious problems with the article you wrote or posted. Those problems have not gone away. This is the same problem with the other thread. No evidence is given and when evidence is given it comes from anti-Falwell websites (not good solid sources). I looked up the Moon/Falwell connection and I could not even find ONE article/report on the event that was not written by a anti-Falwell person. Maybe I have overlooked something so I will keep looking. It would be interesting to get a full picture view of what actually happened (etc). That way I, and others, can determine if Falwell did do wrong or if what he did (said) is being misquoted and misrepresented. The quotes provided in your article/post are not helpful in trying to figure that out since the qoutes are so limited. This is the same problem with these anti-Falwell type websites.

    _________________________________________

    ==It will be interesting to read that and to see who wrote it (etc). If the source is another anti-Falwell website/author you can't expect anyone to accept it. As for showing proof that "the information" you provided is "incorrect", we can't. Why not? Because you have not provided your source(s) so we can check out their source(s) and get to the bottom of this issue.

    In Christ,
    Martin.
     
  12. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,308
    Likes Received:
    784
    1Ti 5:19
    Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses

    Since niether this trhead nor the other one has any single witness, and Dr. Falwell is an elder then the accusations must stand as unbelievable.
     
  14. eloidalmanutha

    eloidalmanutha
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    0
  15. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    You forgot to quote "touch not my annointed"...the discussion goes on......
     
  16. Martin

    Martin
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2005
    Messages:
    5,228
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for posting the source. Clearly there are alot of links (etc) on the page to go through. However a concern I have already after a brief over-view is that the site mainly links to itself. Don't know if that is meaningful yet but it is a concern. Another problem is the KJV-Only promotion on the site. Again not sure if that concern will be a problem but just stating it at the outset. It would be nice to get a non-ministry, non-anti-Falwell, site as a source on these matters. I am starting to believe it is impossible to get that though since even I could not find any.

    Martin.
     
  17. Brice

    Brice
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Messages:
    597
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Boanerges,

    Did you happen to take a look at the footnotes? I assume you didn’t because those footnotes would expose the source of these allegations. Here’s a link for you - http://www.seekgod.ca/footnote.f.htm Now if you take a look for a second, you will see that those sites are very ANTI-Falwell and many, such as www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes make the same allegations toward many others as well and have been shown on BB to be erroneous at best. They go after many people such as –
    R.C. Sproul
    Charles Swindoll
    D. James Kennedy
    David Jeremiah
    Billy Graham
    James Dobson

    Now if this isn’t an obvious agenda, it would be hard to find one anywhere.
     
  18. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does "Dr' Falwell have a legitimate earned doctorate?

    found this partial quote:

    "it is not customary for an honorary doctor to use the formal title of "doctor", regardless of the background circumstances for the award (the clergy being a notable exception: Robert W. Schuller, Robert A. Schuller, Billy Graham, Norman Vincent Peale and Jerry Falwell, just as examples, are all referred to as "doctor" and refer to themselves that way, even though none of them possess an earned doctorate but all have several honorary degrees, whereas Martin Luther King, Jr. earned a Ph.D. from Boston University)."

    Is this correct?
     
  19. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Boanerges,

    Did you happen to take a look at the footnotes? I assume you didn’t because those footnotes would expose the source of these allegations. Here’s a link for you - http://www.seekgod.ca/footnote.f.htm Now if you take a look for a second, you will see that those sites are very ANTI-Falwell and many, such as www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes make the same allegations toward many others as well and have been shown on BB to be erroneous at best. They go after many people such as –
    R.C. Sproul
    Charles Swindoll
    D. James Kennedy
    David Jeremiah
    Billy Graham
    James Dobson

    Now if this isn’t an obvious agenda, it would be hard to find one anywhere.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Okay, so let's just say this then Brice. If even let's say 20% of the information was dead on, would it be a cause for concern?
     
  20. Boanerges

    Boanerges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2005
    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Boanerges,

    Did you happen to take a look at the footnotes? I assume you didn’t because those footnotes would expose the source of these allegations. Here’s a link for you - http://www.seekgod.ca/footnote.f.htm Now if you take a look for a second, you will see that those sites are very ANTI-Falwell and many, such as www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes make the same allegations toward many others as well and have been shown on BB to be erroneous at best. They go after many people such as –
    R.C. Sproul
    Charles Swindoll
    D. James Kennedy
    David Jeremiah
    Billy Graham
    James Dobson

    Now if this isn’t an obvious agenda, it would be hard to find one anywhere.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Out of 48 footnotes, three of them were referenced to that site.
     

Share This Page

Loading...