FBC Dallas and Christmas Wars: Is this Kingdom work?

Yes. Although the Gospel is first and foremost the work of the church, it is not the exclusive work of the church, since other areas affect the ability of the church to carry out that great commission. As Matt Chandelier of the Village Church, Dallas says, the job of the Church is to "Push back the darkness." Thus, whether the business is racist, and discriminates against people of another ethnicity, or they are biased in favor of secularism over and against Christians, it behooves the Church to push back.

Note that Jesus got involved in these kinds of issues constantly. He attacked people for turning religion into a means of greedy gain, when he turned over the money changers tables, he stood between the Jews and the adulteress, addressed the issue of taxes, etc.

I am actually shocked that anyone would have a problem with them doing this. Just seems like common sense, to me.

 

Hello!

So who made you the mother hen that you have to nag us all the time about the original topic? Sorry, buddy, but conversations progress. That's sort of the point of a discussion forum.

 

Censorship is prohibited by the First Amendment...........

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.....when it is Government doing the censoring.

In our country, you have the freedom to express your opinion. Your employer also has the freedom to allow consequences of said expression to catch up with you.

For instance, I can stand up at our Christmas Eve service and go on and on about wishing everyone a "Happy Kwanzaa." But my church would also have every right to can me if they wished--one, for being a moron for buying into such a monumentally stupid excuse for a holiday; and two, for not conducting myself as my employer desires me to do.

Are there limitations on speech, and related counter-actions by employers? Yep. But many folks in this country (maybe you as well) seem to have gotten the meaning of the First Amendment a bit scrambled. The FA protects your right to speech--and prohibits the government's abridgement of it. It does not prohibit consequences of your expression from overtaking you.

Is it legal for FBC-D to put up the site they did? Yep. Is it wise? Completely different question. Not so sure it is. Here's why I say that:

• I don't think it's effective. I expect such an adversarial condition causes folks to simply dig in and draw battle lines. I think there are much better ways to get the point across. I'm sure many folks disagree.
• Many of the "offenders" listed are acting true to their nature. Why should we expect non-Christians to act like Christians? Now...I see a difference between their trying to appear neutral in the "holiday wars" (I think they appear silly rather than neutral) vesus appearing hostile to Christmas observers and/or Christians. (Examples such as prohibiting school choirs from singing any Christmas songs unless they do not mention anything regarding Jesus, etc.--that's more hostile than neutral, IMO.
• It does not draw the important distinction that IMHO must be drawn between private and public dismissal of Christmas. If Target wants to tell their employees to say "Happy Holidays," instead of "Merry Christmas," they are a private company and have that right. And we have the right as consumers to shop elsewhere. But years ago, my nephew was in a school choir, and the program that evening included information about Kwanzaa (!) and a spoken tribute to Hannukah--but all the Christmas songs were edited to remove Jesus, Christmas, etc. from the song texts. It took a threatened lawsuit to restore sanity to the cranially/rectally inverted school officials. (Not an urban legend here, folks--I actually helped put folks in touch with the appropriate Christian defense entities). There's a good example IMO of when it's time to stand up and say something.

OK, I've said my piece. ya'll go after it as you see fit...:tongue3:

 

Don't forget the reason for the season....Mythras.....:smilewinkgrin:

 

Since Christmas is completely a man made holiday to begin with...how is this Church doing this "carrying out the Great Commission"? Would they be doing the same thing in trying to enforce Happy Thanksgiving over Happy Turkey Day?

 

If I begin a cult that worships woodchucks, and get a societal norm started that makes "Happy Groundhog Day" the standard greeting, and we encourage the firing of all people who say, "Happy Bill Murray Movie Day," will Havensdad support my efforts?

 

It amazes me that people get so upset over Christmas. I hate to break it to you but Christmas is not a Christian holiday. Some Christians tried to retrofit it, but that didn't work all that well. Is it any surprise that Christmas here in America has become all about covetousness? It's not to me. You can dress up a pig however you want to but it will go right back it's slop. Jesus said you don't put a new patch on an old garment or new wine in old bottles. Jesus didn't come to patch over an old religious worship service but to usher in a new one. Christians ignore the wisdom Christ imparts there and try to patch over an ancient pagan holiday. Surprise, it didn't work.

I'm not against Christmas. I have a tree in my living room, lights on a hedge in my front yard, and plan on exchanging gifts. To me, however, Christmas is what it is - a national holiday built on tradition. Do I think of the birth of Jesus at Christmas? I hope I think of Him every day - His birth, life, death, resurrection, ascension, and the promise of His return. Do I make a big deal out of Christmas? Nope. What's the big deal? If a non-believer doesn't want to celebrate the birth of Christ, should I be surprised? Come on. Should I get angry? Nope. Are they taking Christ out of Christmas? That's ridiculous.

 

I, a non-natural born American and yet to be naturalized permanent resident, will have to speak out.
I am 64 years old and came to America when I was 50 years old.
Most of my young life in the streets of Manila, and then more years as an adult in the mountain villages of the Philippines, America to me in December was synonymous with mistletoe, reindeer, snow, holiday lights, and people calling out Merry Christmas, or greeting cards printed with Merry X'mas, and especially after I was converted I was fully convinced that while America may have its image as a land of promiscous men, women, and teenagers, and serial killers and serial rapists and kiss-kiss bang-bang detectives and secret agents, Christ, at least by tradition, if not by faith, is mentioned on the -brrrrr months.

I DREAMED of coming here and being able to hear and see all those and be a part of it all.

Now I get to the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, and somebody blows away the Twin Towers and certain religious, irreligious, and non-religious sectors have succeeded to take away the religious fervor of the country that is known in my country to be a country of Christians WITHOUT FIRING A SHOT and actually physically invading this country.

I don't believe Christ was born on December 25 either, nor do I believe that it is important that the Christmas season be observed, BUT, like h*ll and I'll be danged if I ain't gon' say Merry Christmas just because some nut thinks it is politically incorrect.

 

Excellent points and a very wise perspective. Agreed completely.

 

Jaigner, in all due respect, if I was pastoring a church and was the recipient of the letter you wrote, I would think that you are a busybody who has no cause to condemn the decisions that me and my church have made. I would also defend your right to not agree, but since you are not a member of my church, I would file your letter in the circular file, and keep charging ahead.

 

The world hates Jesus Christ - always has and always will. Sometimes we forget that.