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Feet Washing Service

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Nicholas25, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Baptism included more than just washings. It also included when one converted to Juddaism. So there is a Judaism/Christianity connection which is what any new Christian does.

    In some parts of the U.S in the service it is called communion. In other parts it is called the Lord's supper.
     
  2. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Is there some reason to assume that observing the rite of feet washing and serving people in the world are mutually exclusive?
     
  3. Bethelassoc

    Bethelassoc Member

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    Still see this as a weak argument. This sounds like an article Bro Vaughn sent me a while back from a KY preacher that tried to dispell the washing of feet by the same methods.

    I believe alot of churches fall into "ritualism" in a church building, and still "take their service into the world as Jesus did", has no bearing on washing feet. This again doesn't lessen the fact that the washing of the saints feet is looked upon by those that do practice as an act of humbling themselves before their brethren in the church house.

    If it is cultural, what about the scriptures? Old Regular did use John 13 which shows that after supper, Jesus began to wash the disciples feet. Wasn't the custom of washing when they came into the home? Why would they sit or recline with dirty feet through supper?
     
  4. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Those who are sick need a doctor and need to be made well. Those who have dirty feet need to get them cleaned. How is being a doctor a rite? How is washing someone else' feet a rite?

    It's is simply being a servant to serve someone in need. It is not a service to try and serve someone who has no need. It is like offering someone a cup of cold water when they are not thirsty and have no need of water.
     
  5. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    The principle transcends culture and time. The principle is to serve one another. That would apply to anyone with any need not just foot washing.

    Jesus said that if someone sues you and wants your under garment to give them your outer garment too. Would you walk around naked in a court of law?
     
  6. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    I came across this item in a newer Bible Dictionary:

    In both OT and NT, the foot is frequently used to indicate a person's activity and also God's watchfl care over them, as when He guides their feet (pr 6:18; Lk 1:79). Being stood on symbolized defeat (1Cor 15:25); falling at someone's feet symbolizes homage (1Sam 25:41); sitting at them indicates learning (Acts 22:3). Footwashing was a necessity and a sign of hospitality (Jn 13:55ff); removing sandals was a sign of respect (Ex 3:5); shaking dust off the feet was a sign of scorn (Mk. 6:11).

    I just found it interesting.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  7. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Gb, perhaps putting my response in a question form was not clear. When you write to the footwashers:
    you imply that they are not taking their service into the world (or else why is this an objection?). But, simply put, people who baptize for obedience and not for physical cleansing, who take the Lord's Supper and are not hungry, and wash feet that are not dirty may also take their service into the world as Jesus did and serve others in a literal way.
     
  8. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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  9. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Could you point out where the foot washers are serving the public washing clean feet in the name of Jesus?
     
  10. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    On page five is written, "(Mount Paran Missionary Baptist Church) “At the close of the communion ceremony there is a brief pause in the proceedings as the bread and wine are cleared away and the implements of the footwashing service are arranged on a small table in front of the pulpit. It is at this time that a small number of people, most of them young adults, may leave the church. However, the vast majority of the members remains to participate in the footwashing."

    Bread and wine for the participants? Many among Baptists in America would find that offensive today.
     
  11. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Bro. GB, I never made that argument -- just challenged your implication that foot washers are not out serving the public as non-foot washers are. For example, you wrote that you wished that some of the foot washers had come to my parents farm each day to help scrape the cow manure off of the slab and wash the cows. And also that foot washers should not just go through rituals in a church building, but "Take your service into the world as Jesus did." You can correct the impression if I've misunderstood you, but the implication is that those who go through the ritual of foot washing do not leave the church building and serve others.

    Twice you have brought up Matt. 5:40 "And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also." You have implied a connection. Are you saying that is cultural also and that we should not obey it? Regardless, to obey one command and fail to obey another at most can only prove inconsistency. It does not prove whether the other command is valid or invalid (or neither or both).
     
  12. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek New Member

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    I have a couple of questions here. It seams that many here not just don't observe foot washing but are against it altogether. Why is that the case? I happen to observe foot washing but it doesn't bother me if someone else doesn't. Why speak so strongly against something that Jesus said we should do?

    Another question is if John 13 does not mean we should have feet washing at church, then why do we observe communion (Lord's Supper)?

    I am not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand both view points.

    PS Observing foot washing does not rule out service outside the church nor does it guarantee it.
     
  13. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    If Baptists would obey the Jesus-commanded ordnance of eschewing shoes [Luke 10], that would learn 'em to wash their feet too, Amen?
     
    #53 Jerome, Nov 20, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 20, 2008
  14. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Not exactly. Go out and wash the feet of those on the stret and see if that leads them to Jesus or brings them closer to God by your service. I am quite sure you that if you went to North Dakota right now and asked to wash the feet of people walking down the street they would look at you like you are crazy. I really doubt that one person would look at you as a servant who desires to reach them by meeting their need.

    Many passages in scripture teach a greater truth that transcends culture and the immediate context. Jesus is not bound in his teaching to just cleaning the manure off of dirty feet. If one would accurately teach the context along with the passage he would also teach the immediate context and what Jesus really taught not just the narrow focus of feet washing. The far greater teaching of Jesus, is servanthood. Anyone can wash clean feet and be a service and never really serve. One can easily serve others without ever washing clean feet. I believe that people can wash feet and never serve them because they do not need or want their feet washed. Doing something for a person who does not have a need is not serving. It is much like a bank loaning a rich man some money. Banks do that al the time because they had a good reason to believe that the rich man wil pay them back. It is in their self interest.

    Luke 9:23, "And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me."

    If you believe that all of scripture must be taken literally then do you carry a cross around town and to your job?
     
  15. Jim1999

    Jim1999 <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

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    Why speak so strongly against something that Jesus said we should do?
    -------------------------------------------

    I would suggest this sentence explains why we speak so strongly that not even Jesus said this was an ongoing demonstration of humility. Of the Supper, He did say, this do in rembrance of me.

    We don't all exclude a custom explanation of some events. It really has no meaning to-day, and certainly not of humility.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  16. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Washing clean feet is a waste of time and does not serve any purpose to meet any need. Clean feet have no need to be made clean. However washing dirty feet can easily serve a purpose. When I was a kid and we walked through the green stuff squishing between our toes you can bet that we washed each others feet before coming into the house.

    Now sometimes I sand the bottom of my family's feet to get rid of the thick skin that can cause cracking.
     
  17. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    There seems to be a prevailing assumption that Baptists who was feet as a rite ignore the biblical context, take all things literally and focus only on literal feet washing in church without learning anything about what it teaches about serving in the "real world".

    Jesus commanded, "Ye also ought to wash one another's feet" and "ye should do as I have done to you." There is a commandment in effect, regardless of what is cultural and what is not, or any other objection. It behooves us to determine if the commandment is both literal and representative or just representative of the kinds of things we ought to do. If you feel it is only representative, then go and do likewise. Surely no one here thinks that is not a main lesson of the event, or seeks to keep anyone from obeying it in that manner.

    But also, considering your objections, be consistent in minutely removing all things from your church service that might waste time, be culturally based, and/or not serve the public.
     
  18. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Jesus spoke in parables for a reason. Some got it and others did not. Consider who those were who did not.
     
  19. Navymans

    Navymans New Member

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    Jim is correct it is not scriptual to be doing this, too many think the Bible as a whole pertains to them when that is just wrong, careful they dont want you to offer up your first born next. I am not putting you down or the flamming you but I think I would find me a Church that is true to scripture.:godisgood:
     
  20. Joshua Rhodes

    Joshua Rhodes <img src=/jrhodes.jpg>

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    There is nothing wrong with washing another's feet as an act of humility and service. Christ said to do it. Christ Himself did it. What's wrong?
     
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