Fellow Kentuckians, what to do?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by saturneptune, Nov 4, 2007.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    I have lived in Kentucky many years, and this is without a doubt the worst choice for governor in history.

    The Republican incumbent was the first one elected in decades, and promised to clean up the cronyism in Frankfort. He puts in his own cronies and is indicted for violation of civil service laws. The case was dismissed.

    On the other side, we have a former Lt Governor who will do nothing but replace the present cronies with his own. He is for putting casinos on the ballot for approval, and is vague on abortion.

    At the same time, the incumbent says no casinos, but did nothing about the lottery and horse racing that presently exists. There is a school of thought that casinos are more damaging to a community than the lottery.

    Anyway, this is a classic example of neither caring about the citizens of Kentucky.

    I have not decided. What say you, Kentuckians?
     
  2. EdSutton

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    Wonderful choice, no?? We, as get Kentuckians, get to vote on "the evil of two lessers".

    I will definitely be voting for Trey Grayson (R) for Sec'y of State, and L.J. "Todd" Hollenbach (D) for State Treasurer, and for both without reservation.

    I'll offer my opinions, for anyone interested.

    Grayson
    has an unblemished record in office (as far as that is possible in KY politics) and far superior qualifications over his opponent, and is probably the best individual candidate on the ballot of KY, this fall.

    Hollenbach
    's opponent got her nomination on the pledge to work to eliminate the office as unneeded [knowing full well that that cannot be legally done during her tenure (and is highly unlikely to be done thereafter, requiring a Constitutional amendment to accomplish), so after collecting $1/2M for four years, if elected, would run again for a second term, thereby double the $ bucks to a cool Mill, for a second four year term (Anybody here game for $1M for eight years in an unneeded job that, according to her, could be entirely done by a Secretary with a computer?? Maybe I should be running for it!)] Sorry, I find that to be entirely duplicitous and disingenious, so will I find myself voting against a very close personal friend of my own closest first cousin, here, who is the sister my brother and I never had when we were growing up.

    Both candidates for Auditor seem pretty good, in fact; I give Lee (R) a slight nod over Conway (D) as Attorney General, but either will be a big improvement over the current, opportunistic, political hack holding that office, hoping for bigger and better opportunities, which thankfully the Citizens of KY denied in the primary.

    And how can a real Kentuckian, especially a UK Basketball fan, vote against re-electing Richie Farmer (R) as Sec'y of Agriculture, with a decent, if not outstanding, record for the last four years in that office, and with an opponent who is no more distinguished, even if both are decent.

    I do not know a great deal about either of the two judge Candidates for the Court of Appeals, but one has been a judge for 13 years, and the other has been a County Attorney for 22 years, having been twice selected as the outstanding Co. Att'y in KY, during that span. Both seem to articulate family values, as much as that is possible, under KY law for judicial candidates, so this is a "pick-'em", as well, IMO.

    To sum up so far, my recommendations on whom to vote for:

    Sec'y of State - Grayson (R), easily.

    Att'y Gen. - Lee (R), slightly.

    Auditor - either one is fine, IMO. Greenwell (R) is the incumbent and has shown integrity in the office, but I would not particularly endorse one over the other as Luallen (D) has a pretty good track record, as well. That pick may even be moot, as I heard that Greenwell had to drop out of the race, in order to take care of her terminally ill mother, but cannot confirm this as fact.

    Treasurer - L.J. "Todd" Hollenbach (D), again easily.

    Sec'y of Agriculture - Farmer (R).

    Judge - Court of Appeals - Either, with one about as good as the other, apparently.

    "There ye' go!" as Marshall Sam McCloud, would have said. :thumbs:

    Oh wait! I almost forgot the race for Governor/Lt. Gov! (Maybe I/we really wish we could!) Just please don't puke in the voting booth, as it makes it annoying for the next voter, so if you will make this choice last, perhaps you could get outside before it happens. I really do wish I had a better choice for that office to offer, but do think some of Gov. Fletcher's 'hassles' are the result of many years of "politics-as-usual" in KY. Granted, some are fully self-inflicted, as well. Fletcher has done some good things as Governor, and Beshear has some less-than-stellar background questions, as well, IMO, and the Lt. Gov. candidates are not enough to tip the scales for either, again, IMO. Dr. Fletcher was the personal Physician, of my wife (who is a registered nurse, specializing in Cardiac care), for several years, before leaving the active practice of medicine upon his election to Congress, and she does somewhat support Fletcher over Beshear, believing, as I do, that casinos are not the answer to any problems KY may face, and would actually make a situation worse, although she is not ever a rabid supporter politically of anyone. She also knows Dr. Mongiardo, as well. I have not heard her 'diss' him, either, as she has seen him and interacted slightly with him around the hospital, and she has said nothing negative about him either. So I guess that her support for Gov. Fletcher is about as strong as a political endorsement as she would ever make of anyone, since neither she nor I are actually running for any office. ;)

    In short, I will also give the nod to Ernie Fletcher and Robbie Rudolph (Rs) over Steve Beshear and Daniel Mongairdo (Ds), but given what I know about all the above would find several of the candidates of both parties, for other offices as above, preferable for Governor, to those we actually can vote for. So, like many other Kentuckians, I'll just hold my nose, and jump! [Group Hug!, here]

    Gotta run, and get ready for church services.

    Oh wait one sec. Something [​IMG] just crossed my mind. [​IMG] Wonder if I could write in Gatewoo...?

    Ed
     
    #2 EdSutton, Nov 4, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 4, 2007
  3. saturneptune

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    Thanks for your thoughts on the cabinet races. Grayson will be my choice for Secretary of State, and after hearing your story will vote Hollenbeck for Treasurer (D). Farmer always gets my vote for ag. All the candidates for Attorney General and Auditor are not bad. I would be inclined to vote the opposite party as that for Governor.

    I appreciate your thoughts on the top race. It kind of reminds me of the ridiculous choices next year for President, say a Giuliani against Clinton, Mr and Mrs Abortion. Fletcher, by his performance deserves to lose. However, there is something to be said for casinos. They are much more entrenching on a community with the drugs, crime, mobs, and prostitution, say than someone stopping at a mini mart to buy a lottery ticket. Also, Beshear is evasive on abortion. He is for tax hikes.

    I may give it to Fletcher by the slimmest of margins, but he deserves no ones vote. When the Republicans start acting like Republicans again, they will win.

    Thanks again for your response.
     
  4. Ivon Denosovich

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    Legitimate question. This too is a legitimate question: would you have posted that apart from a Wheeler candidacy? I commend Wheeler for outraging people with her comments. And if Wheeler's flagrant leeching off the dole infuriates people, all the better. I hope she wins, does nothing, makes big bucks, and brags about all the suckers forced to pay her millions for doing nothing. She should cash her checks in Cancun and blog with an "L" on her forehead directed at the tax paying public. Maybe then others will join you in such asking questions. Dialogue (and outrage) such as this is long overdue and if nothing else she deserves the office for forcing people to talk about the issue of downsizing. After all, fourteen other states have had this same issue arise, and they scrapped their office so I doubt the Commonwealth will face the doomsday predictions her primary opponents forecasted. If it takes shamelessness for the public at large to denounce bureaucracy, then she should check her work ethic at the door. Would to God that more govt. officials were shameless about what they plan on doing. I'd welcome the wrath.

    Btw, I take it you were for Napier. :)
     
    #4 Ivon Denosovich, Nov 4, 2007
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  5. EdSutton

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    I am not outraged at an elected office that is there, as part of our KY Constitution. If, we the people of the Commonwealth of KY, want something different, then let us elect legislators who support such changes as an Amendment, and will draw it up, and let us vote on it. It is not any part of the job description of the State Treasurer (or any other onstitutional official) to push for any Constitutional Amendment, other than as a private citizen, on his or her own time. (That's why we have legislators.)

    And I am far more outraged at the many offices that are high level 'appointed' offices, that are filled with the hacks and cronies of someone. We have eliminated some Constitutional offices, and added some more, over the years. But I fail to see how eliminating an elected office, at say $125K, and replacing it with an appointed office at say, $175K per year really is all that beneficial to us, as a state. And at least, we can toss out a jerk that is an elected official. Can't do that with an appointed one (not to mention all the lesser level incompetents that have garnered tenure under the "Lack of Merit" System), unless we toss out his 'benefactor' first.

    If any Constitutional official, for example, is useless, we do not have to put up with him more than four years. By contrast, you and I can't boot the Secretary of the Cabinet, though, without first tossing the Governor, nor can we oust the Speaker or Senate President, on a statewide basis, but only on a 'by district' basis.

    FTR, I was for Lonnie Napier, for that office, and he and I are close personal friends, and have been for forty years. I was not for him when he was in the running for another office (Lt. Gov.) another time, and would not have voted for him because of the head of the ticket, then. Just so you know, my personal friendship does not automatically override my own political ideas.

    Ed
     
  6. Ivon Denosovich

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    Okay... I was unaware that an office holder was under some obligation not to speak publicly about the office they hold, its functions, its relevance and so forth... this is an odd implication... Cite, please? Unless you see "clandestine secrecy" as part of the job description, then public accountability (including the estimated importance or lack thereof of the functions of the office itself) most certainly is part of the duties at hand. Also, I was under the impression that an elected official proclaiming her office to be unnecessary would be a vital, indeed essential, motivator for legislators to introduce corresponding legislation. Silly me.


    I fail to see how arguing random hypothetcial numbers (conveniently) supporting your argument matter at all. :confused: Well, um, God told me he's voting for Wheeler... so there?!?

    Further, you still haven't addressed the crux of my first post: she's forcing people to talk about downsizing the govt, an idea if implemented, would undoubtedly be sold to the public as an efficient way of saving the tax payers money thus presumably cutting spending. Regardless, if govt waste is to occur blame certainly can't be pegged on the person honest enough to admit the govt. isn't providing a crucial service.
     
    #6 Ivon Denosovich, Nov 5, 2007
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  7. AF Guy N Paradise

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    I was born and raised in the big blue country and most of my family still lives there. But since joining the AF back in 1987 I have not kept up with KY politics except for Pitino, Tubby, etc...
     
  8. Ivon Denosovich

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    Well, you've followed the only politics that really matter! :D
     
  9. Ivon Denosovich

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    From Wheeler's website:

    (Bolding mine.) Even if your hypothetical numbers, EdSutton, hold true (and I doubt it) replacing a $125k salaried elected person with a $175k salaried appointee still saves serious cash when the seven persons above get axed. That is, unless you're now going to argue that their combined hypothetical salaries and benefits amount to less than $50k. :rolleyes:
     
    #9 Ivon Denosovich, Nov 5, 2007
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  10. Tom Butler

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    I know Steve Beshear, and I like him. But I can't vote for him. He is just too liberal for my right-wing redneck political philosophy. I don't like his views on the casinos and abortion, and his nanny-state liberalism. So, it'll be Fletcher. I'm not happy with Fletcher either, but he has restored the state to some semblance of fiscal sanity. And he's agin whut I'm agin.
     
  11. saturneptune

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    Honestly, at this late hour, as far as governor goes, I am still undecided. If not for the issues of casinos and abortion, there wouldn't be any doubt my vote would go for Beshear. If one looks at Fletcher alone, he deserves to lose. He ran on a platform of cleaning up Frankfort and getting out the Democratic cronies. He put in Republican cronies. Even his present Lt. Governor refused to run with him. The guy was indicted, although it was dismissed.

    When Republicans start acting like Republicans again, they will start winning again. If they are going to act like Democrats, they will lose.

    If I do pull the lever for Fletcher, it will go along with several Democrats to keep this guy in check.

    It is too bad Fletcher won the primary. Larry Forgy would make a fine governor.
     
  12. Ivon Denosovich

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    I"m in the same boat, saturneptune. I have no idea which candidate I'll vote for in the Governor's race. Neither deserves to win. I can live with Beshear's views on casinos, but abortion? No!

    I may vote in every other election tomorrow but the Gov's race. Btw, I heard there's a special tonight on KET at 9ish discussing the election if it's of interest. Take care.
     
  13. saturneptune

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    Thanks for the info. Yes, a pathetic choice. I got a feeling this will be the exact situation one year from now in the Presidential race.
     
  14. Ivon Denosovich

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    Probably so! :(
     
  15. TomVols

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    I wish Forgy had won back in 95. I wish he was on the ballot now. But since he isn't, I'll admit that Fletcher is the slightly better candidate than Beshear. Kentucky hasn't had a good governor in so long it's pathetic.
     
  16. Baptist in Richmond

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    Okay, that was hilarious!! I laughed out loud at that one.
    :thumbs:

    Regards, hope all is well in Paradise,
    BiR
     
  17. Baptist in Richmond

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    Looks like the people of Kentucky are seeing the Governor for who he is and kicking him to the curb.
     
  18. Ivon Denosovich

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    We evicted one crook and replaced him with another. We lose when we win.
     
  19. saturneptune

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    Exactly right. I did not know who I would pull the lever for until time to vote. Finally, I chose the Republican, for no reason that merited his reelection. I suppose abortion and casinos tipped the scale.

    This is the catch 22. The democrat chosen to replace him was not the answer. The republican deserved to lose. You will be seeing a reflection of this quality a year from now in the Presidential election.
     
  20. Filmproducer

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    Just jumping in here, and have not read the entire thread. I graduated from UK, and the entire time I was there I interned at the UK Survey Research Center, as well as working as an interviewer for a time, and supervising other interviewers. This perception is out there because other Kentuckiand probably have expressed as much. I worked on countless surveys for the Long Term Policy Research Center, the KY Attorney General's office, and the list goes on. I vaguely recall, (as in I don't recall the exact questions or how long ago), a survey that included opinions about this very subject.

    Here is a more succint list of some of their clients:

    http://survey.rgs.uky.edu/#Anchor-Recen-8149

    Anyway.... Back to your original discussion.
     

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