Fictionalized Non-Calvinist Sermon Snip

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Rippon, Aug 24, 2014.

  1. Rippon

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    Again, this is completely fictionalized. I didn't copy this from anywhere. I certainly do not at all agree with what is below. But I'd like some feedback on it. All non-Calvinists many not agree with the points that the Arminian preacher is advancing but here goes:

    Today, I want to tell all of you that Christ died for you. Now those intellectual Calvinists would object to this. They'd say:"Christ died for His Church, the elect only." Yeah, yeah, yeah. And on it goes. But I'm here today to tell ya' that Christ died for each and every one of you. He didn't miss nary a-one. He died for Judas, Hitler, Mao, all the folks that died in the Great Flood, all the people who never heard of Christ, never heard the Gospel. He died for everyone in Hell before Christ came. You ask me how all of this can be. Well, I'll tell you. I believe my Bible. I believe John 3:16. "For God so loved the WORLD." Did ya' catch that? I said the world. Does that leave anyone out? Of course not. Amen?

    Christ died a substitutionary death for you and me. You say, "Preacher, what does substitionary death mean?" It means He took everyone's death upon Himself on the cross of Calvary. Haven't you read 1 John 2:2? He is the propitiation for the sins of the world. Don't let them Calvinists take that verse out of context neither. Now I know it may not make sense to you, but it's true. There are some of you listening to me who might not go to Heaven. I wish that weren't the case, but it is an unfortunate fact. Did Christ die for you? Yes, He certainly did. Then you might say in reply to me:"Preacher, if He took my sins on Himself, if He died in my place, then why might I die and go to Hell?"

    That's the kind of objection that a Calvinist would make. I'm tellin' all of you this. Christ died for each and every one of ya'll. He took your sins and mine on that blessed tree. But just because He did that doesn't mean that you won't go to Hell. Okay, I can hear what some of you are thinking:"How can He pay for some's sins and then that person goes to Hell and has to pay for those very same sins himself in Hell forever and ever?" And I will tell you --I honestly don't know. I don't have everything figured out like those la-de-dah Calvinists do. They use legal terms and call it Double Jeopardy. How can it be fair, they say, for Christ to pay for someone's sins --but then some people have to pay for those same sins all over again in the fires of Hell for eternity? I told you I don't know how. I don't have all the answers unlike some who think they have God all figured out. I just take it by faith.

    Christ died for every single person in the past, present and future. And He took their sins on Himself. But it's up to every person to make a decision for Him. If they don't there's no deal. Christ's death is like an unendorsed check. Now that check could be for an incredible sum of money. But if a person doesn't sign it --it's no good. You have got to sign on the dotted line for Christ here this morning. He did everything He could for you. Now it's your turn to live up to your end of the bargain.
     
  2. Revmitchell

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    Not sure I understand the point of this thread. That said non cal preachers do not go into the pulpit thinking about "Calvinists" or what they teach or do not teach. They are almost never on anyone's radar.
     
  3. Rippon

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    Well, that's your experience. Let's see what others think. I base a lot of it from a KJVO church in the Seoul, S.K. area as well as some KJVO congregations back in the States.

    But aside from the fictionalized preacher mentioning and interacting with Calvinistic thought --wouldn't the reasoning of the preacher be sort of like your own?
     
  4. DHK

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    Most non-Cal's that I know preach the gospel, not what the gospel isn't, especially in this way:
    I have never heard that approach in any sermon.
     
  5. salzer mtn

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    To add to the sermon I have heard free wills say Christ has done all that he can do, now it's left up to you. The bible is letters written to the church, the elect, the saved, not the wicked world. That is seemly what people cannot comprehend. The words world in John 3:16 and the words us and we in other scripture don't mean every person in the world but to his own people. To the free wills the blood has no effectual power in the regeneration of a sinner whatsoever.
     
    #5 salzer mtn, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2014
  6. Revmitchell

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    These are the kinds of statements made by those who are ignorant or just intentionally inflammatory. There are no other options. It is also the reason why there is so much hostility between the camps and in the SBC why there is such a divide.
     
  7. Rippon

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    To call my post ignorant shows your ignorance rm. My OP shows how informed I am of the position of many in the non-Calvinistic camp. --like it or not. The "fictionalized non-Calvinist" is the stance of many on the BB.
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    A couple of things here. I did not quote you I quoted someone else therefore it should be clear and without doubt that I was not talking to you.

    Also, in that one single post (where I quoted someone else) I gave more than one option. The fact that you first applied my post given to someone else to you and then only applied one of the two options as if I said all of that to you and directly called you ignorant shows a possible couple of options:

    1. You nefariously are working to misrepresent me.

    2. Have a severe reading comprehension problem.

    I would suggest you take a self inventory and evaluate the error that lead to that incoherent post.
     
  9. Rippon

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    Okay, I had read it and thought it applied to my op. It was addressed to sm upon rereading. But don't go to such extremities to classify it having evil intent. It was a mistake and nothing more.
     
  10. salzer mtn

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    Originally Posted by salzer mtn View Post
    To the free wills the blood has no effectual power in the regeneration of a sinner whatsoever.

    Effectual: producing an intended effect. Does the free will believe the blood of Christ is sufficient within itself without anything of man to add to it to save ? I think not.
     
  11. Revmitchell

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    Uh I once again gave more than one option
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    You betchya
     
  13. Rippon

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    Uh, both were wrong.
     
  14. Revmitchell

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    Of course that is what you "think". That is wHat intentionally demonizes those who disagrees with you the most.
     
  15. convicted1

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    That's a fair question to ask, DHK. If He did in fact propitiate...pay the debt...appease God's wrath...for everyone, past, present and future then why....

    1) Are people in hell right now who died before Christ came?
    2) Why are people going to hell now and hereafter?

    Both of the groups, in the non-Cal view, Christ paid their sin debt in full. Then why are people in hell and now, and still going to hell? Their sins were atoned for by Christ. Unlimited Atonement waters down the blood, imo...
     
  16. salzer mtn

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    Salvation is not in a plan, but in a person. God don't beg men to be saved as some preachers by their words and actions promote this lie. God commands men to be saved Acts 17:30. Arminians auction of Jesus every time they give a altar call. " Will you get up and take Jesus, he's wanting you to come. He's standing at your hearts door knocking, begging to come in. They have reduced a sovereign to a beggar. But what say the scripture, Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power.
     
  17. prophet

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    1Co 1:2
    2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:


    Rom 1:6-7
    6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:
    7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints:Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.


    1Co 1:9
    9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
     
  18. salzer mtn

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    Called by God yes, but not by religious hucksters
     
  19. webdog

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    You know the answers to these questions...you used to give them.
     
  20. convicted1

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    That's what I was always taught, even whilst a sinner. So, I studied with a freewill bias. Once I asked God to allow me to study w/o any bias one way or t'other, the DoG leapt out at me.
     

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