Finish the Sentence...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Calvibaptist, Mar 10, 2006.

  1. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist
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    Just for curiosity sake, I would like everyone who is interested to finish the following sentence:

    Salvation (I am saved) is by ____________________.

    I am curious to see if we understand our biblical terminology. I will stay out of the thread for a while and wait until sufficient number of people have bantered it about until I make my comments so you can see where my though processes are.
     
  2. James_Newman

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    grace through faith in the blood of Christ
    OR
    grace through faith and patience
    OR
    stay in the boat
     
  3. genesis12

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    The Biblical response is that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone.

    God revealed His plan at the Cross. In response to that revelation and the "wooing" of the Holy Spirit, I accepted Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. He paid the debt in full (tetelestai!). Eternal security is my precious free gift. No one who has read and understood God's promise can ever say that he or she was never "woo'ed." Didn't respond, maybe, but the gentle knocking on the heart's door was, without question, there, on more than one occasion.
     
  4. npetreley

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    Salvation (I am saved) is by "grace [...] through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."
     
  5. Me4Him

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    Salvation is by "FAITH" in Jesus, no man come to the father's "GRACE" (salvation) but by/through "ME".
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

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  7. DeafPosttrib

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    Tell us the defintion of 'faith', what it means? Does the Bible saying that we already once have faith on Christ at the moment of salvation? Also, does the Bible actual saying when a person ONCE faith in Christ at the moment of salvation is already automatically eternal security?

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  8. Calvibaptist

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    Most of you gave the biblical answer that I expected. Now, for my follow-up question. What is the difference between the words "by" and "through?"

    E.G. - BY grace THROUGH faith
     
  9. saturneptune

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  10. EdSutton

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    Since you say you are "curious to see if we understand our biblical ( sic ) terminology", I will help you. :D
    There is no "Biblical" answer to the question you asked, for there is no way to complete the sentence.

    There are five statements made in Scripture, to my knowledge that have the words "salvation is" as part of them. (My knowledge in this is limited to the KJV, RV, and ASV, as those are the only versions my concordance covers. There could be more of which I am not aware. AND I could have missed some, as well.)
    "...salvation is far from the wicked..." (Ps. 119:155)
    "...salvation is gone forth... "(Isa. 51:5)
    "...salvation is near to come..." (Isa. 56:1)
    "...Salvation is of the LORD." (Jonah 2:9)
    "...for salvation is of the Jews." (Jo. 4:22)

    Again, to my knowledge, "I am saved by..." does not occur in Scripture.

    But that is not really what you are asking.

    There are multiple things that are said that either we are saved by, or we shall be saved by, in a verb tense, other than present. Most of the answers above spoke to some of this. And most were valid. [​IMG]

    The short theological answers, consistent with Scripture would seem to be that we have been saved by grace, or we have been saved by the Lord, or salvation is by the blood.

    Through, from "dia`" speaks of agency or conduit. By sometimes can mean the same thing. Sometimes it may be different. Sometimes it may be supplied by the traslators to make sense in English of a Hebrew or Greek idea, case, tense or idiom. What the language will not support, IMO, in Eph. 2:8, for example is an attempted 'severe' distinction. Especially when there is no preposition directly 'attached' to 'grace', but 'by' has to be derived from the instrumantal case. The instrumental and ablative cases suggest separation between the words grace, and faith; they do not demand severe contrast.
    In His grace,
    Ed
     
  11. EdSutton

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    [​IMG]
    Amen! and Amen!
    Ed
     
  12. Plain Old Bill

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  13. Frenchy

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    I heard a very good example of what FAITH was, trusting in something you cannot see. Commiting yourself over to something to hold you up,something to take care of you, guide you, other than yourself.

    Say you have a chair in front of you. you believe that the chair will hold you up (intellectual FAITH) but it isn't. it isn't until you put your committed faith into the chair by SITTING in it, does it become saved faith a committed faith. God doesn't want people to just believe in him intellectually, he wants people to commit their whole life into his care, that is when there is a real heart change not just saying some prayer or going to church.
     
  14. Me4Him

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    Good example, if I may "expand on it". :D

    Say the chair is God's Grace, salvation, you may believe the chair will "support" your weigh, but until "YOUR FAITH" is "DEMOSTRATED" by sitting in the chair, then the chair can never demonstrate it's power to support you.

    We have to "Demonstrate" our faith in Jesus, (willing to sit in the chair) before the "Chair" can demonstrate it's power to "save us".

    NO MAN comes to the Father except by me,

    No man will sit in the chair (regenerated/saved) UNTIL AFTER they have faith in Jesus,

    So Faith in Jesus comes before being regenerated/saved/Grace.

    Calvin says we have to sit in the chair (regenerated) in order to get the faith we need to believe, but Jesus said the opposite was true.
     
  15. Frenchy

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    True, God gives you faith so that you will come to the chair, but this isn't saving faith. Saving faith is when you actually sit in the chair.

    Can you provide the scripture where Jesus said the opposite was true
     
  16. eloidalmanutha

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    Can you provide the scripture where Jesus said the opposite was true </font>[/QUOTE]Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith . . .

    ALL faith is of, through, by, with, in, because of Jesus Christ - He created it, He gives every nano bit of it, He builds it, He completes and finishes and uses it in us.
     
  17. genesis12

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    The guy asked us to complete the expression, not prepare an exegesis.
     
  18. Calvibaptist

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    NO. NO. NO. NO. NO! I am beginning to think that you pay absolutely no attention to anything either the Bible or anyone in the whole world (that would, in this context, mean "anyone who has ever lived") has said.

    Calvin, and calvinists, believe that the Bible teaches you need to be regenerated before you will want to sit in the chair. Sitting in the chair is an example of faith. Regeneration is not sitting in the chair. Regeneration is the act of God that gives you spiritual life and sight so that you can even see the chair and desire it.

    If you don't understand theology, please do not argue in the theology section. Read and learn. Regeneration is not faith. Regeneration is not justification. Regeneration is not election. Regeneration is not salvation. It is part of salvation, just like the others.
     
  19. Me4Him

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    Can you provide the scripture where Jesus said the opposite was true </font>[/QUOTE]Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    God has the "GRACE" but it is not given until there is first "FAITH" in Jesus.

    Ro 10:9 That..if.. thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    The "IF", "believe in thine heart", comes "BEFORE", "thou shalt be saved".

    De 11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;

    27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:

    28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God,

    God doesn't "Change" and neither does his "plan of salvation".

    Ro 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

    It was "Abraham's FAITH", not God's faith, that was "COUNTED TO HIM", because the faith belonged to Abraham, not God.

    "IF" we believe Jesus (God) it's counted to us as "righteousness".

    God calls many who are not chosen, is God's calling at fault for not giving them the "Faith" they need to believe, if it is then scripture lied when it said Jesus didn't come to condemn the world and die for the sins of the whole world that the world through him "might be" saved.

    Why the "might be" if it not possible for the whole world to be saved???

    Calvin accuses God of some "Characteristics" that only "Sinners" possess,

    1. if you don't "LOVE", you sin.

    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world,

    Ro 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation.

    Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


    2. Respect of persons = sin

    Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.


    Ro 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

    Calvin doctrine is based more on Ignorance of scripture, than "knowledge".

    [ March 11, 2006, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: Me4Him ]
     
  20. Me4Him

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    NO. NO. NO. NO. NO! I am beginning to think that you pay absolutely no attention to anything either the Bible or anyone in the whole world (that would, in this context, mean "anyone who has ever lived") has said.

    Calvin, and calvinists, believe that the Bible teaches you need to be regenerated before you will want to sit in the chair. Sitting in the chair is an example of faith. Regeneration is not sitting in the chair. Regeneration is the act of God that gives you spiritual life and sight so that you can even see the chair and desire it.

    If you don't understand theology, please do not argue in the theology section. Read and learn. Regeneration is not faith. Regeneration is not justification. Regeneration is not election. Regeneration is not salvation. It is part of salvation, just like the others.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Regeneration is when the Old man dies and you become a "New Creature", "SAVED".

    You don't get regenerated until you believe in Jesus, and God doesn't "GIVE" the "BELIEF" to you, that your choice, "ABRAHAM BELIEVED" and "IT" (HIS) faith was counted "TO HIM",

    NOT GOD.
     

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