finite SINNING punished with INFINITE torture?

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Read the Scripture above. Your theology does not agree with. First, Gal.3:10 states that you must keep all the law if you are to saved by the law. If you fail but in one point you are just as guilty as if you were to break every law in the book. The same teaching is found in James 2:10. You are cursed if you don't continue in ALL things that are written in the law to do them.

Thus it was Christ that was made a curse for US, all of us, in every generation.

He sacrificed himself ONCE, "to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself" That means all the sin of mankind collectively (Heb.9>26). That is the same teaching as all of the above verses. Not one of them indicate paying for individual sins. Not one verse.
He died once, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God.
He made him to be sin for us--all of us. It happened only one time. It was for all of our sins.
He was once offered to bear the sins of many.

Read them all Bob. They go directly contrary to what you teach. You offer opinion Bob. I give you the Bible.

 

HP: The problem is simply that the caller quoted does not understand the atonement and its relationship to the penalty of sin. Christ did not pay any penalty in the sense of a literal payment as is so often claimed. That is pure fallacy. Christ did not, as I have pointed out repeatedly to BR, pay a literal payment for even one sin, for the penalty of sin is indeed eternal separation from God. If Christ paid that one time He would still be separated from God.

HP:Here BR uses the classic approach of creating a problem to suggest a solution when the fact is that he starts from a false problem or premise. Who said sin was finite? You may have a finite number of sins, but what does that have to do with the nature of sin being ‘finite’? Absolutely nothing. There is not the least shred of evidence that the intrinsic nature of sin is finite. Quite to the contrary, God, by attaching an eternal punishment to it, indicates to me that sin is indeed eternal in nature, ever increasing in strength and stopping at nothing in eternity short of usurping of the very throne of God.

HP: Where does Scripture ever state that one solitary sin was literally paid for? That is a false and misleading presupposition foreign to the Word of God and contrary to any vestige of reason and logic.

HP: If ones desire is to reason from the Word of God, start with establishing the premise that one solitary sin was literally paid for. Without doing that first, you are simply fighting your own paper duck.

HP: You beg the question as to sin being finite ‘in nature.’ Prove it by Scripture and or reason.

 

There is no such thing as "finite sin", for then sin would not have been unto death. What concept do you have of sin! It is because you this limited view of sin that you are able to entertain your limited views of God's revenge upon sinners. "For unto Me, belongs revenge" .... "says God". Get your idea about God right, first, then it will follow that you will have the right idea about sin and its reward.
To begin with you would have reversed the phrasng your topic; you would have asked: Unlimited Love, Infinite God, but finite punishment for sin? And you would have discovered that finite punishment, would be impossible. (But between you and me, I nevertheless believe somehow God in His omnipotence, has found a way through Jesus Christ, to a new heaven and a new earth wherein dwelleth no evil, and an ever ongoing hell cannot be evil. Or can it if the deed and will of God? I leave the hell to God; it's none of my business.)

 

Ed E:

"We Christians saved by Messiah Jesus are
to spend an infinite time set (the Millinnia of Eternity)
in Heaven."

GE:

I'm so glad this earth when made new will still be in heaven otherwise I would never go to heaven.

 

HP: What am I missing here? Why should a ‘new earth’ be understood as this old earth re-worked? Does not Scripture state that this earth and everything temporal will be dissolved?

This earth is finite and temporal. It would appear to me that what God calls the ‘new earth’ will not be finite, and will not be temporal.

 

GE:

May I chip in and point to Bob's old trick. He always speaks of 'atoning sacrifice' with the door left open for an uncompleted atonement that still should be going on in heaven. Now he must provide the sins which Jesus must keep on forgiving. DHK, see?

 

GE:

"the new EARTH ..." It says it all. The earth will be the inheritance of the meek, Jesus promised --- He meant of course, the earth made new. God will not allow the works of His hands go to nothing, dissolved, obliviated - wahtever. He makes it new some day when Christ will come. Jesus said he will come again -- not to deal with sin again -- when all will be restored to the end-plan of God - since the beginning - UPON THIS EARTH. "God so loved the WORLD -- this earth, the work of His own hand, his WILL shall not be disappointed WITH IT.

 

DHK, the problem as I see it with the view of many is that they hold to a literal payment of all sin and then make it less than effective to do what they say it accomplished. I see no way to escape the necessitated illogical ends of the literal payment theory, If one accepts the idea that all sins have been atoned for in a literal sense, you cannot esacpe universalism. On the other hand, if you say God atoned for all sin literally, but it is only made effective in the lives of the elect, you find yourself entertaining a stark contradiction, God’s atonement less than effective to accomplish that which it is said to have accomplished as well as representing God as a respecter of persons. If one holds to a literal payment, and only some have it applied to their lives via the election of God, you have the necessitated damnation of the wicked, never even having the possibility of forgiveness of sins due to the fact of limited atonement.

I personally see no other logical answer to this dilemma other than the acceptance of the idea that there was no literal payment at all. The atonement was a governmental proceeding that allowed Christ to suffer sufficiently that God accepted that suffering as a satisfaction of the penalty of the laws demands. It allows God to treat man governmentally ‘as if though’ he has not sinned when we satisfy the conditions He has set forth to make the atonement effective in our lives, i.e., repent, exercise faith, and then continue in obedience to the end.

 

The only sin the unsaved man will suffer for is the sin of unbelief. Forever apart from The Savior. terrible

 

HP: In our dispensation what determines Christ becoming our High Priest? Certainly He does not fulfill the role of High priest for ‘all’ sinners does He? If He did, universalism would be found to be true. What determines who He will and who He will not fulfill the role of High Priest for in our dispensation?

 

HP: Where does Scripture indicate that? Certainly unbelief is sin, but all selfishness is not unbelief, yet it is certainly sin and will be punished, will it not?

 

I thought one is punished for their sins because of their unbelief. If one refuses to believe in the Savior's payment for their sin, they are going to have to take the punishment on themselves. They have no advocate.

 

There is no flaw in my argument; neither can there be since all that I did was quote Scripture. Do you argue with Scripture?
The Scriptures clearly show that Christ died for all of our sins. He died once--once for all. There is no indication of dying for individual sins. You have yet to point that out with Scripture. You spout out opinions without Scriptural backing. Give me one good reason why anyone should believe an opinion not based on the Bible.

Perhaps the words finite and infinite are not the proper terms to use here. It would be much easier if you defined man and God with the words that the Bible uses: eternal, immortal, everlasting. We don't find the word infinite too often in the Bible, so why use it?

If used in this context: "Can a 'finite mind' understand an "infinite God'? the answer is obviously, NO!
But that is not the context when speaking about sin and its eternal consequences. Eternal is a much better adjective because it can point in one direction forever. Infinite in this way can become ambiguous. It is more of a mathematical term as has been pointed out. So why use it?

Sin has eternal consequences. It will separate you from God for all eternity. You will suffer in the LOF for all eternity. There is eternal punishment clearly taught in the Bible. Reading Rev.20:10-15 teaches that, and the teaching there cannot be avoided and by a six year old. I have children that learned to read at the age of four. They could understand it. Why can't you?

 

HP: There is a consistent theme throughout Scripture, i.e. our sins have separated us from God. Sin is defined in Scripture not as the rejection of Jesus Christ, but as the willful disobedience to a known commandment of God. The rejection of Christ, if one has the opportunity to hear and reject it, is indeed a sin that will seal ones fate, but it is not ‘the’ damning sin. You can be a hot-in-tot having never heard of the gospel message and sin and become guilty before God and perish. Those that have heard and yet rejected the Savior’s offer, will indeed suffer the greater punishment.