First organized Christian church

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by le bel, Dec 16, 2005.

  1. le bel

    le bel
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    This question was posed to me:

    That the Catholic church was the first organized Christian church? Why or why not?

    Organized, maybe, but certainly not the first as a church is the body of Christ/believers.
     
  2. gb93433

    gb93433
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    The NT gives clear evidence of an organized church.
     
  3. le bel

    le bel
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    I said this and she doesn't understand. She's thinking organized as in mass numbers, something along the lines of the Church of Rome.

    One made the claim that most if not all 'Christian' churches spawned off of the Catholic Church. Though I understand 'Baby Catholic' churches.

    Many churches didn't spawn off of the Catholic Church, many wanted to be distinct and separate from it.
     
  4. le bel

    le bel
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    This is what she's basing it off of-

    "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it". Peter became the first Pope and founded the Catholic church. Then everyone split from there. That is my understanding of it.
     
  5. nate

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    Basically the Orthodox church has more of a claim to the ancient church than does anyother "group or denomination". It still has churches based in the middle east the birthplace of the church.
     
  6. le bel

    le bel
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    She clarified that she meant denomination. So I'm guessing the Catholic Church was the first denominational Christian Church? There were always churches, but they didn't fall under specific names.
     
  7. HankD

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    It started in Jerusalem as a visible and identifiable body and spread from there.

    Book of Acts.

    HankD
     
  8. Ben W

    Ben W
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    Greek Orthodox was in existance prior the Roman Catholic Church as we know it today. The Celtic Church also existed prior to Roman Catholiscm.
     
  9. dh1948

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    According to Landmark Baptist theology, the first church was founded by Jesus as He walked the shore of Galilee and "called out" (i.e.: church -- "a called-out assembly") Peter, James, and John.

    Therefore, according to Landmark theology, the first church was a Baptist church....Landmark at that....in that it supposedly had the same doctrine and practice as Landmark Baptist churches today.

    Since Landmark Baptists (don't forget the perpetuity thing) were in existence before the Catholic church, they are not Protestants. Or, as I have heard many Landmark preachers say, "We are the only Protestants, because we protested the rise of Catholicism."
     
  10. LorrieAB

    LorrieAB
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    Act 11:25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:
    Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
    Act 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
    Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

    Complete with timeline (in the days of Claudius Caesar). There are however two Antioch's.
     
  11. mioque

    mioque
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    All depends on your definition of 'organized'.
    On a local level, the Jerusalem church mentioned in the Acts of the Apostles is the first organized church. It also had some real influence abroad.
    If by 'organized' you mean more organized than your run of the mill baptist convention, than we are talking about the factions competing for the title of State Church of the slowly collapsing Roman Empire.
    Arianism, Nestorianism, Catholicism (which would in the 11th century splinter into the RCC and Eastern-Orthodoxy) and the groups that make up what we call Oriental Orthodoxy nowadays.

    Landmark theology, is correctly named theology and has very little to do with the real history of the early church.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

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    Fun thing to help her - Take the NT passages that all deal with actual, physical churches. List the characteristics of each.

    THEN see how closely they match to the Roman Catholic, Orthodox or Baptist! I've done this often and the light comes on when they realize that the structure, activity and whole conduct of the New Testament Church is far closer to modern Baptist than Catholic (West or East).
     
  13. Johnv

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    I'm inclided to say yes. At first, there was one organized church, though probably only loosely organized by our standards. That organization, over time, became the Catholic Church, and eventually other churches split off from that church (most notably, the Protestant Reformation).

    Of course, that's a very simple explanation. The history of organized christian religions is incredibly complex.
     
  14. Ben W

    Ben W
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    Maybe the closest church today is the house church movement?
     
  15. David Singleton

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    If Im not mistaken, The Eastern Orthodox Church was organized before the Catholic Church in Rome and the seat of power was in Constantinopal (OK I cant spell) before that The Church was organized in Jerusalem. The Catholics as corrupt as they were, were a split from the Orthodox Church. The early Catholic Church set about murdering most of the Christian leaders of the day and destroyed anyone who disagreed with them. I would be ashamed to call myself a catholic, and am thankful that I am Baptist
     
  16. Bro. James

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    There is no mistake. The first assembly was "organized" by the Lord, Jesus Christ, on the shores of the Sea of Galilee, circa A.D. 30.
    "Come, follow me, I will make you fishers of men".

    The first assembly was given executive powers in Mt. 16:18 and a commission in Mt. 28:20.

    The Third Person of the Trinity, the Spirit--Holy, came on the Day of Pentecost to indwell the assembly. He has indwelled every New Testament Assembly ever since, and continues even through today.

    God has received glory through His Assembly in every generation since the first--Eph. 3:21.

    Assembly perpetuity does not go through Rome, Constantinople, Wittenburg or Canterbury.

    There is nothing complicated about it at all. The scripture is quite plain.

    God is not the author of confusion, nor does He make mistakes.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  17. nate

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    You are correct. The Eastern Orthodox Church was in existence before the RCC. Although the RCC claims that the East left I'de say it was actually the West that split and fell in heresy.
     
  18. mioque

    mioque
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    David Singleton&Nate
    Congratiulations you are both wrong.
    The RCC and the Eastern-Orthodox are the same age. Starting out as one church that slowly drifted apart finally seperating in 1054.
     
  19. arkie pastor

    arkie pastor
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    If we take the time to study out the word Church (Ekklesia) one would find that this word means assembly.

    Taking this into consideration believe we find that the LORDS Church (assembly) was started on the banks of Jordan when he first called out the 12 to follow Him. He assembled these 12 men to start what we call today His Church.

    Secondly I believe this because instructions was given by the Lord on hnadling matters in the Church in Matt. 18:15-20

    Thirdly because of the language used in Acts 2:41, 2:48.....How can you add to something if it doesn't arleady exist. Also I believe that in Acts 1: 13-26 we see a church functioning with at least 120 members present.
     
  20. Gold Dragon

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    Correct. The East-West Schism was developing for centuries before culminating 1054 to produce the RCC and the EOC.

    Prior to the schism, there were five major patriarchs in the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church:
    Bishop of Rome
    Bishop of Constantinople
    Bishop of Alexandria
    Bishop of Jerusalem
    Bishop of Antioch

    It was agreed that the Bishop of Rome was the "First among equals" with no special powers over the other four bishops.

    Currently, the Bishope of Rome leads the RCC while the Bishop of Constantinople is the "First among equals" in the EO Communion which now includes many more than the original four bishops and regions.
     

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