Flag Burning

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Revmitchell, Jun 15, 2006.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
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    While I do not support the burning of the american flag as it represents not only the government but the country as a whole, I am concerned to hear the news that an amendment to the constitution is in the talks to prevent flag burning. What say you?
     
  2. Magnetic Poles

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    You don't defend liberty by destroying it. The flag represents a government, and if that government becomes oppressive, burning a flag is a legitimate form of protest, covered under the First Amendment.

    Secondly, if I buy a flag, it is mine to do with as I please.

    Thirdly, the proscribed method of disposing of a worn or tattered flag is burning.

    Fourthly, it is not as if this is a pressing issue. How many flag burning happen in the US....one every 10 years? This is just more political grandstanding by scared GOP congressmen in an election year, pandering to the base, rather than addressing issues that are vital to the nation.
     
  3. Daisy

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    It's mostly grandstanding. I'm not convinced that such an amendment is enforceable or advisable.

    The first problem is that burning is one of the proper methods of disposal of a ragged flag.

    The second is what determines was is and is not a flag. Is a paper flag on a toothpick pole a flag? Is a t-shirt with a silkscreened image of a flag a flag? Is a piece of rectangular cloth with a flag printed on it a flag? What if it's paper? How about if it's only printed on one side or with the wrong number of stars or stripes?

    The third is that the flag is a symbol of, among other things, the freedom of speech so it would be ironic to limit that freedom in favor of honoring the symbol.

    The fourth is that treating the flag as sacred is veering into idolatry.
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    Well i agree with most of what has been said except I know that it represents the country as a whole. It represents you and I and those who have fought and died for our freedom. It represents the Iron Worker, the block mason, the brick layer, the elevator installer, the roofer, the CEO's, the salesmen, the Democrats, the Republicans, the Liberals, the Conservatives, the Libertarians, it represents all of us. That is why it is used at the Olympics, and national events. It represents America as a whole.
     
  5. Daisy

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    You're not wrong - it is symbolic of all you have said. But should a symbol be treated as sacred?
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    Should it? Yes! Absolutely! But I have huge reservations about criminalizing it. I cannot put my finger on why but it bothers me. Just does not seem right. Ill figure it out sooner or later.
     
  7. KenH

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    :thumbs: :applause:
     
  8. Revmitchell

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  9. Alcott

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    On that way at looking at things...
    -Are any penalties currently the same for burning a cloth American flag on a public street as for a state flag, a school flag, a gang's flag, or a blank piece of similar cloth?
    -Are any penalties currently the same in a Veteran's Day parade to pick a flower off an exhibit going by and stomp it, as to pickoff a small American flags and stomp it?
    -Are the penalties currently the same to rush a dead soldier's funeral to grab a wreath and stomp it as to grab the flag draping his coffin and stomp it?
    -Are the penalties the same for stealing and burning the original copies of the Declararation of Independence or the Constitution, since numberable copies are available, so the originals cannot be "sacred" where the copies are not?
     
  10. Hope of Glory

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    What should the penalties be for someone who decides to defend the flag of his nation against desecration when someone decides to desecrate it? After all, if burning the flag is "speech", then using fisticuffs to let them know how you feel is also "speech".
     
  11. James_Newman

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    If someone wants to burn me in effigy I say go for it.
     
  12. KenH

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    Not so. A flag is personal property. One can do with it as he wishes whether anyone else approves or not. You do not have the right to use violence against him because you may disapprove of how he exercises his rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    Christians should never encourage such violence.
     
  13. Terry_Herrington

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    The penalty for someone stupid enough to use his fists in this instance is that they should be charged with assault. Of course, there is always the possibility that this ignorant person might get shot, especially here in Texas.
     
  14. KenH

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    Sometimes I think that I have been figuratively burned in effigy on this board. :laugh:
     
  15. NiteShift

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    These guys have it down pat.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Bro Tony

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    Might I just add, because several have said that burning a tattered flag is the way to dispose of it. This is true but it is done in a ceremonial fashion---it is not burned as an act of protest. The flag is special for what it represents, and when it is so badly worn it is disposed of in a proper respectful way. Not just by lighting it on fire. Your local boy scout troop will gladly properly dispose of any worn out flags if needed.

    Bro Tony
     
  17. Hope of Glory

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    So, perhaps it would be OK to defend the flag if the protestor stole it? It wouldn't be private property then.

    I'm just curious. I don't think there needs to be a federal amenment, although state laws against it would be quite appropriate. But, the last time I checked, burning a flag is as much speech as getting naked is or hitting someone.
     
  18. KenH

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    1) The flag needs no defense. The reason it flies proudly is that anyone who wants to burn it in protest can do so.

    2) I disagree. If burning the flag was not protected under free speech, then there would be reason for those who want to ban the practice to be trying to amend the U.S. constitution.
     
    #18 KenH, Jun 16, 2006
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2006
  19. Hope of Glory

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    So, strip clubs should be able to open any place they so choose?
     
  20. pinoybaptist

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    Wow ! I wonder if the indifferent attitude towards the American Flag is representative of a large portion of the American people.
    If it is, then what's all the fuss about erecting a monument to the US Marines raising that flag in Iwo Jima, and that tear-jerking media presentation of muscular, hardhatted blue collar workers, draping that American Flag on the side of a building.
    What in tarnation does it mean for soldiers to come into formation at certain times, and stand at attention while the national anthem is played and the US flag raised ?
    Heck, there are at this moment more than 2,500 dead US soldiers in Iraq and each and every survivor of these dead soldiers will be given an American Flag, complete perhaps with honor guards and 21 gun salutes.
    If it's not that sacred to Americans, why, give them tokens of American Flags instead, or maybe cheaper caricatures of the US Flag instead of the original ones which probably costs at least $10.00 each.
    And folding it.
    Heck, what's with all the ceremonies of the right way of folding the flag ? Fold it anywhich way you choose, man. For that matter, hang it and fly it any which way you want, right ?
    After all, it's just a flag. Don't mean nuthin' at all.
     

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