Flags in the church

You're right. I don't think it is that everyone is so confused. But there is significance in symbolism. People don't acknowledge that as they used to. I think there is an underlying, cultural issue here.

 

Hmmm....maturity.

Okay.

 

If it where just an issue of flags, why worry about what any flag represented, hang up a Jolly Roger or a Nazi flag.

If I had lived in the USSR, would it be okay to hang up such a flag in church? Or maybe if we all lived in Cuba we could have those flags in our church services.

If you are going to hang one, don't you have to hang them all?

It seems to me that the hanging of an American flag in the church service is in some way saying, though I would admit unintentionally in some cases, that America is Christian, when clearly it is not and has never been the case.

A symbol of secular power doesn't belong in the church.

 

at Jarvis Street Baptist Church, Toronto, they used to sing God Save the King at every Sunday morning service,,,,all three stanzas.

We never had a problem with it or worshipping our God.

Cheers,

Jim

 

I prefer NOT having an American flag in church. Its not that I dont like America. I love America. In spite of all of our problems, it is still the greatest country on earth, imo.

The reason I dont want an American flag in church is simply because the scriptures inform us that we are not of this world, but are citizens of a higher kingdom. (country)

 

I totally agree! I for one never take the pledge.

 

You might see it as a symbol of secular power but most do not. It is a recognition that this country was founded on biblical principles it is not a recognition of secular power.

 

Uh, no it wasn't. Even it was, which is most definitely was not, it would still be a symbol of secular power not appropriate for a church service.

Jim, was the church a state supported church or was it totally independent?

 

You dont get to decide that for other people.

 

Do you just oppose the American flag in churches, or oppose the flag PERIOD?

From the Nailing it to the door blog:

 

Patriotism is most deffinately an American thing and rarely seen in England, but I think both patriots and non-patriots are allowed to be Christian!

 

I don't display it anywhere, including my classroom, but that is a preference. I don't condemn anyone for having it in their classroom or at their home or car or wherever. That's an issue of conscience.

And if I'm ever told to put it up in my classroom, I will. I won't pledge (there are no children in my room at that time), but I'll put it up.

 

If it is a public school in the USA then it should be displayed and along with the state flag.

Sheeeeeshhhhh liberals

 

How in the world is following a conviction to not display a flag a liberal trait?!?

Complete nonsense.

As a Christian, my allegiance lies elsewhere. Unless told to do so, I'm not putting it up.

 

Or inversely, those who go through a church removing any national symbols seem in some way to be saying "I don't abide patriotism or nationalism. Therefore I am more Godly than you."

 

In the case of leaders, I think it is their responsibility to make such decisions. People who are offended are just likely to suggest arrogance played a part.

 

Yeah, I'm sure that's true. But if would help the whole situation if churches didn't wrap Jesus in an American flag every forth of July, claim America is a or was a christian nation and that George Washington was almost the same as Moses.

Just as it would help if churches wouldn't blame America for every ill of the world, demand apology for events that took place centuries ago or imply only stupid people read the Bible without explaining away every passage that isn't politically correct or culturally fair.

 

My wife and I have talked long and hard about this topic in the church and elsewhere.

From my research, Christians have come down on two fronts historically. One, that we should honor our country by rightfully submitting to government. The other is a more patriotic and nationalistic view. There are good people on both sides of the debate though historically it seems the vast majority of churches would not have a flag in the church (some exceptions exist with Episcopals, Catholics, and more state centered denominations).

To me, from my reading of history the more nationalistic and patriotic the church the more likely there is sycretism within the church. We saw this during and after the Revolutionary War where Christians embraced philosophies and theologies that were more nationalistic than Biblical. This led to implanting of variants of common sense moral reasoning which caused a great decline in Biblical theology of the day.

My wife and I have discussed whether a Christian should even pledge allegiance to any entity besides God and His Church. While we are called to be model citizens and submit to our nation's laws, do we really want to pledge allegiance to a fallen world system? Or, do we want to respect the laws of our land and pledge our sole allegiance to God?

In our homeschool, we began with having our kids pledge allegiance to the flag years ago. Since then we have ceased this and have elected to focus more heavily on Biblical teaching and training. Are we unconditionally dedicated to a Republic? I cannot say that I am. I am unconditionally dedicated to Jesus, His Word, and His Church. I love my country and will follow her laws insofar as they agree with the Bible. Yet, my allegiance is never with America, it is with God alone.

 

Could not be farther from the truth

 

Coudn't be further from the truth? I am curious of your source. I would love to provide for you a series of sources for my conclussion. Granted, in the last 100 to 150 years that has changed, but when most churches held to the Regulative Principles, it is safe to say that they normally did not have a flag in the church (except state type churches). Most churches, including Baptists, held to a form of the Regulative Principles. Churches were not very nationalistic in America until around the Revolutionary War, and still while the nature of sermons changed, many still would not include a flag in the church.

While the Civil War and the 1800's brought about a dramatic change that cannot be denied, I figure the other great change occurred around World War II. In Germany, it was Hitler's co-opting of religion for his own demonic plans. America got on the Flag hype when the rise of Communism was intrinsically linked to atheism, we saw ourselves as intrinsically linked to Christianity (about this time "under God" was added to the pledge).

Thus, if you want I will provide my sources when I get home, but please provide your own.

Saying I am bearing false witness is not really appropriate unless you can provide evidence to the contrary. Yet, most in Christianity for quite some time held to a regulative principle that normally meant they could not include flags. They were added later, but historically I do not find a ground swell of churches advocating the use of the flag.