"Follow me..."

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HAMel, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. HAMel

    HAMel
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    "And he saith unto them, Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men." Matt 4:19

    Can any of you show me where it's recorded in the Bible that we are to walk the isle; make a decision; make a commitment; cough up the devil; recite a canned prayer; attend a class; or any of the other several requirements levied by individual churches? Give an invitation? Be in constant fear of "losing ones salvation".

    Goodness!

    Where is it recorded that preachers/laymen are to beg others to believe, to walk the isle, to make said decision, etc.?

    Jesus never "begged" anyone. All he advocated was to, follow him. To repent. To believe. To follow...

    We are instructed in Matt 11:28

    28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

    29 Take my yoke upon you, and LEARN of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

    30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


    We that labor and are heavy laden..., with what? from what? Heavy laded, the results of the world? What is that LABOR that we are involved in that is so heavy?

    We are to LEARN of Him.

    His yoke is easy, and His burden is light.

    ...why do we make things so hard? Just for a name on the church rolls that adhere to the pre-approved..., "that's the way we do it here"?
     
  2. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    First, one thing in particular strikes me: In your post you say we are to "learn of Him" but clearly His command says something quite different:

    Matthew 11, NASB
    29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS." [Emphasis added]

    The way we are to learn of Him to to learn from Him. It is an important distinction. "Take your instruction from Me," and not anyone else.

    Secondly, I don't see any of the activities you describe as "begging." I see it as evangelizing. Certainly that is what we are called to do. Now, as to the last part of your first paragraph, obviously one cannot lose one's salvation, but the aforementioned activities leading up to that statement in your post don't assume it can be "lost." They assume there are some, if not many, present in a church on any given Sunday who feel drawn to the Lord but don't know what to do about it. They are simply guidelines.

    Let me say, I absolutely do not believe "walking an aisle and saying a prayer" amounts to salvation, but then again, I can't see what goes on the heart. Only God can. I believe there is a process leading to salvation:

    • The Holy Spirit calls, as John the Baptist in the wilderness, calling men to repentance. But the Holy Spirit is much more effectual at that than John was, and in fact, John was merely an instrument of the Holy Spirit.
    • The Holy Spirit draws men to Him, which is to say He lays on their hearts the evidence they are in need for a Savior, "piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow," enabling them to judge the condition of their own "thoughts and intentions of the heart."
    • The Holy Spirit opens the mind to the truth of Who Jesus truly is, and enables the mind to grasp and believe that truth.
    • Here, the tiniest bit of a human role in salvation takes place. The will, having been overwhelmed by the power of God and the realization of Who God is, can freely accept what the mind now knows is true, and the heart leaps for joy at realizing: That the soul is unclean, filthy rags before such an almighty God, and that the pain and isolation of existence can be snuffed out by reaching for this lifeline being cast into that sea of desperation by a loving God.
    Or it won't. It will reject it, insist on having it's own way, demanding life on it's own terms, leaving the man or woman in a condemned state, perhaps forever, or perhaps only until the next time the human spirit within hears the call and feels the draw of God, yet again. "Now the word of God came to Jonah a second time ... "

    Or it will, and if so, God judges that as belief, and righteousness. The Holy Spirit joyously enters in, and angels rejoice in heaven.

    One can counterfeit this event. One can let the emotions and the need to "fit in and be accepted" run away with one's self and walk -- or even run -- down the aisle and pray a prayer and have an emotional reaction that looks, temporarily, like salvation. God knows "counterfeit" when He sees it, and will not judge the expression of "belief" as true and sincere, and reject it. The key is, what does that person do with it? Is there indeed an evident life-change? Or, three days, three weeks, or three years later, has nothing changed? If the latter, there was no conviction sufficient for the will to surrender to Christ. We on the outside may not realize it immediately, or ever. But God always knows.

    On the other hand, if there is life change, if there is a commitment to being discipled, to reading the word of God, to prayer, to fellowship, to service -- even if it falters or is slow to get started, or has peaks and valleys -- there is salvation evident in this life. God has judged that belief as true and sincere, and honored it with eternal life.

    I don't think we should criticize efforts among churches to facilitate this event in the lives of the lost. Neither do I think should we tolerate false gospels that tell new believers there are "lists of things to do, or not to do" and that certain behaviors are expected in their lives, or else they "might not be saved." Christ is freedom from bondage. Some churches, far too often, have the new believer replacing life's bondage with "faith bondage" that isn't faith at all, but legalism, or even false teaching.

    We must beware of how we disciple new believers, and how we criticize the efforts of churches to "go therefore and make disciples of all the nations."
     
    #2 thisnumbersdisconnected, Oct 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2013
  3. HAMel

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    We must beware of how we disciple new believers, and how we criticize the efforts of...

    Are these efforts of..., scriptural?

    John the Baptist did indeed "urge" men to repentance!

    A short review of history will reveal these modern day efforts began to emerge just prior to the late 19th century. For almost 2000 years men repented.

    As of late, we must walk the isle..., which I personally do not specifically see anything wrong with this practice..., I just question the validity of this practice along with so many other modern day requirements, as being scriptural.

    Can a dying man on the battle field repent just prior to his death? Or is he lost because he didn't walk the isle?
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    I was unimpressed with your characterizations in the op. Then this came along and it shows just how weak your position is. If you do not have the knowledge of others positions and at the same time do not really have a clear argument yourself, no amount of dishonesty will make up for your lack of argument.

    No one has ever said the only place someone can get saves is by walking down the Isle. I am embarrassed for you.
     
  5. webdog

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    Couple things here. I agree the repeat after me canned evangelism can be dangerous, just like other forms. You have erroneously blended the means with the method. If you don't find invitations to repent and pleading in the Bible, I would suggest a new Bible.
     
  6. HAMel

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    I am embarrassed for you.

    ...with all due respect, you'll get over it.

    Besides, I've always been under the impression that someone who refers to themselves as "Reverend", is merely seeking personal recognition. This is why I prefer those with the title, of Pastor.

    However, in keeping with the attitude of many who contribute to this board..., it's not hard to see said contributions parallel the attitudes of many churches. Our way..., or we are "embarrassed" for you.



    ...I should have known better.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    What you should have known better is to misrepresent what you oppose. And if the only response you have is to attack a username then it further goes to show the weakness of your argument.
     
  8. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    I'm afraid this shows not only your lack of understanding, but your propensity for unrighteous judgment. Good day, and God bless you.
     
  9. HAMel

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    Attacks only permitted one way?
     
  10. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    I didn't attack you. I stated fact.
     
  11. HAMel

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    Jesus said, Follow me...
    Jesus said, Follow me...
    Jesus said, Follow me...

    I didn't say it..., Jesus said it! Needless to say, my entire post was taken out of context along with the intent and purpose being missed completely.

    End result, I've got one who is embarrassed for me; another is going to pray for me..., and only facts were presented.
     
  12. go2church

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    How would you suggest people express their commitment to Jesus? Aisles are clearly out of the picture!

    There is a bunch of stuff we do that isn't in the Bible, doesn't mean it's bad or unbiblical.

    I'm not sure where you're getting at with this thread, but people remember the problem solvers, not the critics. You've been critical, now tell us how you would fix it.
     
  13. Revmitchell

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    I do not care what your position is. Fact is you misrepresented facts. You are either trying to speak about an issue that you do not really know anything about or you are being very dishonest.


    No one ever has said that the only way people can get saved is to walk down the isle which is what you clearly implied. I suggest you either get some facts or get some integrity. Your choice. At this point you look more like a troll than you do anything else.
     
  14. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    I think I smell a hyper-Calvinist. Then again, I could be mistaken.
     
  15. Iconoclast

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    go2church

    Believers Baptism.
     
  16. Iconoclast

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    thisnumbersdisconnected



    Just like the tintest bit of poison turns a gallon of pure milk into a gallon of poison.

    No...salvation is all of God...all of grace....good posting Hamel
     
  17. Iconoclast

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    :thumbs::applause::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  18. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Then evangelism is a waste of time, the passages in the Bible that urge the sinner to seek God are lies, and preaching the gospel to the lost is useless.

    Your assertions are hyper-Calvinist pap.
     
  19. Revmitchell

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    The op is hyper calvinism, however since the op had such a weak argument the poster had to resort to misrepresentations a couple of times.
     
  20. HAMel

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    :thumbs::applause::thumbs::thumbs:

    Thank you Mr. Iconoclast. I assume you see the post as it was intended.

    ...you all do realize that Jesus was executed by the religious crowd of his day.
    Has much changed over the years?

    How did that thief on the cross get saved and at days end found himself in Paradise?
     

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