For as the lightning cometh

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Brian30755, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. Brian30755

    Brian30755
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  2. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn
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    I haven't 'scrolled down'; nevertheless, as Karl barth has said, there's no bridge between faith and unbelief, but Christian Confession.
     
  3. LeBuick

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    Everytime I see this subject I thin, "what a great title for a sermon".

    Mt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

    Who has an outline or where do you start with this one?
     
    #3 LeBuick, Sep 16, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2006
  4. BobRyan

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    Hint: "Every Eye shall see Him" --

    1Thess 4 "For the Lord shall descend from heaven WITH A SHOUT with the voice of the archangel and the Trumpet of God"

    2 Thess 1 "revealed in flaming fire dealing out retribution to those who do not obey the Gospel".

    Rev 20 "The FIRST resurrection" is the 1Thess 4 resurrection of the Righteous and occurs following the Rev 19 terrible and awesome manifestation of our God and Savior in clouds of heaven.

    The time line according to Matthew 24

    1. church age continues <== you are here! Matthew 24:4-15

    2. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28

    3. Second Advent of Jesus event Matthew 24:29-30)

    4. rapture/resurrection event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5

    5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end


    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. Brian30755

    Brian30755
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    Hey Bob,

    Just to make sure I understand you correctly.....according to the time line you described.....you are saying that we (Christians) will remain on earth through the 7 year tribulation period described in the book of Revelation?
     
  6. El_Guero

    El_Guero
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    It sure does feel like the day is getting ready to end . . .

    The Lord will only tolerate so much before the end.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    That is the sequence that Matt 7 provides as shown in the verse-by-verse sequence summary - is it not?

    And of course the saints ALREADY went through the long-dark-night of the church in the dark ages where millions were in tribulation for century upon century. For John or Christ (in Matt) to look in the future and skip over the centuries long persecution and tribulation that the saints endured for century upon century upon century languishing in dungeons, living under laws of "extermination" according to Lateran IV etc - would be unthinkable.

    BTW - there is no seven year period of tribulation given in the book of Revelation.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  8. LeBuick

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    Thanks BobRyan, I tucked that one away. I may put that together.

    But I spend a little time with preparation for the lightning lest I be accused of trying to scare the non-believers.
     
  9. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    BobRyan: //BTW - there is no seven year period of tribulation
    given in the book of Revelation.//

    Absolutely correct. Instead the Book titled: Revelation
    shows two each 3½-year Half Tribulation Periods.
    [ for the arithemetically challenged, 3½-years plus 3½years
    equals 7 years ]

    Note that
    3½-years = 42 months
    3½-years = 1360 days
    3½-years = time (1), times (2), and a dividing of times (½)

    Rev 11:1-6 (KJV1611 Edition):
    And there was giuen me a reede like vnto a rod, and the Angel stood,
    saying, Rise, and measure the Temple of God,
    and the Altar, and them that worship therein.
    Rev 11:2 But the Court which is without the Temple leaue out,
    and measure it not: for it is giuen vnto the Gentiles,
    and the holy citie shall they tread vnder foote [/b]fourty and two moneths[/b].
    3 And I will giue power vnto my two witnesses,
    and they shall prophesie a thousand two hundred
    and threescore dayes
    clothed in sackcloth.
    4 These are the two oliue trees,
    and the two candlestickes, standing before the God of the earth.
    5 And if any man will hurt them,
    fire proceedeth out of their mouth,
    and deuoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them,
    hee must in this maner be killed.
    6 These haue power to shut heauen,
    that it raine not in the dayes of their prophesie:
    and haue power ouer waters to turne them to blood,
    and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

    Rev 13:5 (KJV1611 Edition):
    And there was giuen vnto him a mouth,
    speaking great things, and blasphemies,
    and power was giuen vnto him to continue fortie and two moneths.

    Rev 12:14 (KJV1611 Edition):
    And to the woman were giuen two wings of a great Eagle,
    that shee might flee into the wildernesse into her place,
    where she is nourished for a time, and times, and halfe a time,
    from the face of the serpent.

    These are the four mentions in Revelation of the 3½-years.
    Some say all these are the same 3½-years.

    But I say two different 3½-year periods (collectively 7-years)
    are specified.

    In the days the Temple in Jerusalm is rebuilt,
    the Antichrist is NOT in full power;
    in the days of Rev 13:5 the Antichrist is in full
    power.

    In the days of the Ministry of the two witnesses,
    there is no rain; in the days the Jewish Israeli elect saints
    are kept in the wilderness by the very Hand of God,
    there is rain (to nourish the Israeli church).

    Two reasons why the two each 3½-years periods are NOT
    the same but make up the two halves of the Tribuatlion
    period of 7-years.
     
  10. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    BTW, I can't read the clips mentioned in the O.P.???

    ---------------------------------
    Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

    0. church age continues <== you are here!
    1. rapture/resurrection event
    2. Tribulation time
    3. Second Advent of Jesus event
    4. literal MK=millennial kingdom
    5. new heaven & new earth

    The time line according to Matthew 24
    (Mount Olivet Discourse, also Matthew 25,
    Mark 13, Luke 21):

    0. church age continues <== you are here!
    Matthew 24:4-15

    1. rapture/resurrection event
    Matthew 24:31-44

    2. Tribulation time
    Matthew 24:21-28

    3. Second Advent of Jesus event
    Matthew 24:29-30)

    Not mentioned in Matthew 24:
    (4. literal MK=millennial kingdom)
    (5. new heaven & new earth)

    The time line according to Revelation:

    0. church age continues - Rev 2-3 <== you are here!
    1. rapture/resurrection event - Rev 4:1 (type)
    2. Tribulation time - Rev 4:2-19:10
    3. Second Advent of Jesus event - Rev 19:11-21
    4. literal MK=millennial kingdom - Rev 20:1-6
    5. new heaven & new earth - Rev 20:7-22:5

    The time line according to 2 Thessalonians 2:

    0. church age continues <== you are here!
    (implied, until the falling away)

    1. rapture/resurrection
    v.1 - gathering together unto him
    v.3 - falling away

    2. Tribulation time
    (time of the man of sin)

    3. Second Advent of Jesus event
    v.1 - coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
    v.8

    Not mentioned:
    (4. literal MK=millennial kingdom)
    (5. new heaven & new earth)

    BTW, I believed in the pre-tribulation rapture/resurrection
    before i saw these three scriptures as pretrib.
    So even if you can prove all three of these scriptures
    in error, I'll still hope in the pre-tribulation rapture
    as will 90% of Baptists and kindred Christians.

    -------------------------------------
     
  11. Brian30755

    Brian30755
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    Thanks Ed. It's been a few years ago, but I went through a pretty intensive study of the book of Revelation with my Sunday School class. I knew I couldn't be the only one who believes that Revelation details events as they occur through the two 3 1/2 year tribulation periods.
     
  12. BobRyan

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    The 490 year period from the rebuilding of Jerusalem to the coming of Christ is called the 70 weeks of Dan 9.

    In Dan 7 we see the 1260 year period of the Dark Ages following the fall of the Pagan Roman Empire and split into ten divisions. That same dark night of the Christian church in persecution (called time, times and 1/2 time) in Dan 7 and in Rev is ALSO called "1260 days" and is ALSO called 42 months.

    God identifies that same period of the "dark ages" 3 times in Revelation as it was ALREADY defined in Dan 7.

    Christ depicts that great long ages of persecution in Matt 24 and shows it to come before the rapture.

    Anyone living at the time of Christ or John looking into the 2000 year future for the church could not possibly "wink" at that 1260 year period of dark-ages style persecution of the church.

    God speaks of "His Two Witnesses" The two olive trees - "This is MY WORD to Zerubabbel" and so it is that during the Dark Ages - during those 1260 years of persecution the WORD OF GOD is under attack and is being obscured, burned and covered up. But then near the end of that 1260 year dark-night of the Christian church in centuries-long tribulation -- God causes not only the protestant reformation but also the invention of the printing press and the Bible is immediately loosed -- no longer suppressed by the power that persecuted Christians in the dark ages.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #12 BobRyan, Sep 17, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 17, 2006
  13. BobRyan

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    On thing is easy - we can all read the verses and SEE that this IS the sequence they are presented IN Matt 24.

    That is the easy part!!

    The time line according to Matthew 24

    1. church age continues <== you are here! Matthew 24:4-15

    2. Tribulation time Matthew 24:21-28

    3. Second Advent of Jesus event Matthew 24:29-30)

    4. rapture/resurrection event Matthew 24:31-44, Rev 20:4-5

    5. Millennium - Rev 20:5-end
     

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