For calvinists: Has God loved every man who ever existed?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by webdog, Sep 5, 2007.

?

Has God loved every man who ever existed

  1. yes

    47.4%
  2. no

    42.1%
  3. I don't know

    2.6%
  4. other: please state

    7.9%
  1. webdog

    webdog
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    This thread is for Calvinists. Why or why not?
     
  2. larryjf

    larryjf
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    No, God has not loved every man who ever existed.

    Why not? Because the Bible tells us so...

    Malachi 1:3; Rom 9:13
     
  3. jellico25w

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    That would be out of context. Read what the verses are talking about, those verses are referring to God choosing someone for eternal fellowship. Not love/hate emotions. Compare Jesus telling a potential disciple:Lu:14:25: And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them,
    Lu:14:26: If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. To follow Jesus means you must "hate" your family in comparisn to Him. This verse shows His love to everyone, because He sent His Son to die for sinners. 1Jo:4:9: In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Let me ask you a question. Do you sin? of course we all do. But the bible says :Jo:3:6: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.1Jo:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
    1Jo:3:9: Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. Now the bible says it. But if i tell you you are going to hell because of these verses i would be taking these verses out of their content. You need to know the whole topic being spoken of, not just a single verse. The devil loves confusion.
     
  4. reformedbeliever

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    Why is this poll only for calvinists?

    Why would a free willer say that God loves everyone? Why would God send someone He loves to hell? Why did He create hell if He loves everyone?

    I'm sure you will say it is because they choose their destiny. Can a person whom God knows will not choose to believe or have faith, choose to believe? I don't think so. John 3:19 says that they loved darkness rather than the light (the world is representative of "they")... hense the necessity of being born again. We are born again of God, not an exercise of the will.
     
  5. webdog

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    Because it is how I started it. It stems from a discussion that was taking place in another thread (you know which one...I saw you reading the thread ;)).
    The Bible says it.
     
  6. reformedbeliever

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    I suppose an abomination is that He just loves them less?

    Proverbs 6:16-19
    16 There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
    17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood,
    18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil,
    19 A false witness {who} utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.

    Is this "loved less"?

    Leviticus 20:23 'Moreover, you shall not follow the customs of the nation which I will drive out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I have abhorred them.

    Hosea 9:15 All their evil is at Gilgal; Indeed, I came to hate them there! Because of the wickedness of their deeds I will drive them out of My house! I will love them no more; All their princes are rebels.

    I'll provide much more if you need it. I think this will suffice.
     
  7. reformedbeliever

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    Just because of the discussion you decided to make this question for calvinist only? I don't get it. Why would you think I would deny reading the other thread?

    The bible also says that God hates some people.
     
  8. larryjf

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    I really don't think the "hating Esau" passage is the same context as the "hating your father" passage.

    I never ascribed human emotionalism to God, but you did say does God love everyone, and the Bible is clear that He does not. Suggesting that what God calls hate in the context of Esau is actually love is quite a stretch.

    The context of Malachi 1:3 is showing the distinction between the people of God (Israel) and those outside of the people of God, even though they were brothers.

    The context of Rom 9:13 is God's sovereign choice of His people. This has direct bearing on the issue, because why would God not choose those He loves?? The point of the passage is that God sovereignly chooses those He loves for salvation while passing over the others.
     
  9. webdog

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    Andy T wanted the question posed, and I obliged and thought it was a good idea. Reformedbaptist believes along the same lines as I do in regards to God's love and mankind, and thinks he is in the majority in his view.

    I didn't think you would "deny reading the other thread". It was a joke, since you turned me onto the "quick links" portion on this board back in the day when your posts were a LOT kinder.
     
  10. larryjf

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    Please point to a specific verse that tells us God loves everyone...otherwise it is mere speculation.
     
  11. webdog

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    John 3:16 is not mere speculation.
     
  12. jellico25w

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    Look at it this way. When you were a child, if your dad told you to cut and stack the wood by 5:00 o'clock and you did not. Though he loves you, you have to face the punishment of not cutting and stacking the wood right? This free will doctrine is hard but what we must realize, God would not be God if He were not Omniscient(knows all). Because He knows all does not excuse man from his part of accepting/ rejecting Christ. just like it would not excuse you from not doing your chores for your father. God does not give one man the blinders because He desires one to go to hell over someone else. It is called judicial blindness, so as not to give someone more light to the truth, knowing full well he/she will reject truth.Re:16:8: And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
    Re:16:9: And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. How is that verse for Omniscience(all knowing) even during the bowl judgment when man clearly sees his judgment for rejecting Christ he still blasphemes the name of God!! Yes God is just for blinding those He knows will never repent and believe. Who is man to question what God decides is justice or judgment?
     
  13. jellico25w

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    God hates All sin. Yes there are sins that are an abomination to Him. But where does it say He hates those who commit them? Like i said He hates sin, but you show me incontext where it says He hates the sinner.Ho:9:15: All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters. Again read the context, it is referring to fellowship with God. He has cut them off from it. (due to idol worship) and as always and what the book of Hosea is about is returning from spiritual whoredom to fellowship with God Put it in context please.
     
    #13 jellico25w, Sep 5, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2007
  14. reformedbeliever

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    Oh, I see now....lol. My posts were a lot kinder because of conviction that I had about some of the feelings I had for my brothers in Christ whom I disagreed with. We do not however have to be a mat for those who would wipe their feet upon us. We can be meek (power within control) but not have to put up with the way other professing believers treat us (badly). Does that make sense Web?

    I took a lot of time off of this board for just that reason. I lurk as I am in study. I have seen how you respond to many on this bb Web. It is not a pretty sight. Every stop to wonder how secular society views this behavior on a supposed Christian bb?

    I'll try my best to be civil to you. I'll appreciate the same from you. God bless.
     
  15. larryjf

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    Please look more closely at the context of this verse. Look at verse 17...

    For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

    So if you believe that "the world" in verse 16 means every person, do you also believe that "the world" in verse 17 means that every person is saved? "The world" is clearly not used in the way you are suggesting given the context.
     
  16. reformedbeliever

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    I just gave them to you. You however incorrectly think that this is only refering to the sin and not the sinner.
     
  17. reformedbeliever

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    Some people on this board thinks God is going to punish (for an eternity in hell fire I might add) sinners who He really loves.... but like a loving father is simply punishing them? (for an eternity in hell fire) hmmmmmmmmmmm.
     
  18. Rippon

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    The Lord Hates The Person Also

    Psalm 5:5 : Therefore , the proud may not stand in your presence , for you hate all who do evil .

    Psalm 11:5 : The Lord examines both the righteous and the wicked . He hates those who love violence .

    [ NLTse ]
     
  19. MB

    MB
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    I just had to answer this be it what you want to hear or not. God doesn't send anyone to Hell. Men go there because they love sin more than God.
    Isa 57:9 And thou wentest to the king with ointment, and didst increase thy perfumes, and didst send thy messengers far off, and didst debase thyself even unto hell.
    God didn't create Hell for men but for Satan and his angles. Man was created for Salvation and God's pleasure.
    In order for me to answer this properly you should have to present evidence that God wants to know who is and isn't going to Hell. I figure that since He is God He can know what He wants to and not know what He wants to.
    Never the less no one is born again against there will. Being willing isn't necessarily what saves a man this is true. We are saved by the faith of Jesus Christ and not our own. Yet it still isn't forced on anyone who isn't willing to be saved in the first place. Regardless there is no support in scripture for forced Salvation. God doesn't make us willing either. Joshua was willing.
    Jos 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

    David knew the value of a willing mind.

    1Ch 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever

    How can any man deny the will is needed when scripture says that it is, so many times?
    MB
    MB
     
  20. webdog

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    I take issue with this comment. Please show one instance where my posting has not been a "pretty sight". I'm sick and tired of the accusations that fly unmerited around here. I'm sick and tired of asking blunt questions point blank and being labeled the way I am above. I'm sick and tired of being told I serve another "god", that I'm "ignorant", etc. Either these accusations need to be founded on something, or they are nothing but slander, but at any rate they need to stop...NOW!
     

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