For ever

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by HisWitness, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    For those who says that this word means eternal--here are some plain scriptures for you to suggest that it means AGE LASTING---which is essence is dealing with a short or long duration of time.





    Below is a list of Scriptures which clearly show that many of our leading selling English translations have mistranslated the Greek word “aion” and its Hebrew counterpart “olam.” Surely the Hebrews and Greeks had something entirely different in mind when using these words than how we understand the English words “eternal,” “everlasting,” “for ever and ever,” etc.:

    Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 7), that is--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ez.16:53‑55);

    Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer. 30:12), that is‑‑until‑‑the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer. 30:17);

    The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9) that is‑‑until‑‑ Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez. 16:53);

    Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zeph. 2:9, Jer. 25:27) that is‑until‑‑the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer. 49:6);

    An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever", that is‑‑until‑‑the tenth generation (Deut. 23:3):

    Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting", that is‑‑until‑‑they "were shattered" Hab. 3:6);

    The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be ”perpetual" that is‑‑until‑‑Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Lev. 6:12‑13, Heb. 8:6‑13);

    God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever," that is--until-‑the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);

    Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer. 25:27)‑‑until‑‑the Lord will "restore the fortunes of Egypt" (Ez. 29:14) and "restore the fortunes of Elam" (Jer. 49:39).

    "Moab is destroyed" (Jer. 48:4, 42)‑‑until‑‑the Lord "will restore the fortunes of Moab" (Jer. 48:47);

    Israel's judgment lasts "forever"‑‑until‑‑the Spirit is poured out and God restores it (Isa. 32:13‑15).

    So, narrow is the way to life and few find it, that is‑‑until‑‑His church confiscates the "strong man's" booty, setting the captives free so God becomes all in all (Isa. 61, Luke 11:21‑22, Matt. 7:13; 16:18, 1 Cor. 15:24‑28);

    God is now calling out "a people for His name"‑‑an "elect" or chosen priesthood people who will represent and reflect His loving nature. Many are called and few are chosen—that is, until‑‑the small chosen priesthood people, by the Spirit, restore "David's tabernacle" so ALL mankind may inquire of the Lord. Thus we see that the church is the first-born, the beginning‑‑until‑‑in ALL (later born new creatures in Christ) our Lord will have supremacy (Amos 9:11‑12, Matt. 22:14, Acts 15:14‑18, Eph. 3:15, Col. 1 18).

    All manner of sin will be forgiven in this AGE as well as in the AGE (not eternity) to come, except blasphemy against God's Spirit‑‑until‑‑such blasphemy finds pardon in the fullness of the times (or ages) when God unites all in Christ. For the Lord does not retain His anger forever because He delights in mercy (Matt. 12:32; 18:11,21‑22, Eph. 1:9‑11, Rev. 4:11; 5:13, Mic. 7:18‑20). (Much of the above list was provided by Charles Slagle)

    Our justice systems, as faulty as they are, attempt to fit the punishment to the crime. There are many different forms and lengths of punishment to satisfy our moral sense of justice. But according to modern Christendom, all crimes (sins) committed here on earth will receive the same punishment AND it will be far more severe than the most cruel tyrants of the world have inflicted upon mankind. Modern Christian justice has NOT made God a just judge, it has made Him out to be the most barbaric of dictators this world has ever seen. Hitler would be a saint compared to the image of God as judge the church has portrayed of Him.

    The Hebrew word Olam is the equivalent of the Greek Word "aion." If olam meant "forever," why do we find constructs which tell us there is a "beyond" this "forever," as in Exodus 15:18. When we look at the Latin in this case, we begin to see how this great error came into our vulgar translations. The Latin Vulgate reads "Dominus regnabit in aeturnum et ultra," "The Lord will reign unto (or into) eternity and beyond." How is such a thing possible?

    If aion means eternity, why does this word appear in the plural form? Why does it appear in double constructs such as aion of the aion, aion of the aions, and aions of the aions? Is Greek such a confusing language that one can take several different variations of the same word and simple stick them all under "everlasting" or "forever and ever" or is Greek much more exact than our modern Bible translators make it appear to be? When one looks at all the different forms of this Greek word and how many of our modern translations have rendered this word, it becomes quite apparent to the neutral observer that some twisting of meanings has been going on. "Aionas ton aionon," for example is rendered "for ever AND ever" by many leading Bible translations. Ask a scholar what the meaning of "ton" is. You will NEVER hear one say it means "and." This should have correctly been translated "of the" and NOT "and." This is just one of many examples that many translators have been translating according to tradition, rather than what the Greek and Hebrew means. The first revision of the King James Bible, the Revised Version and the American Version, made many corrections in the text and placed many corrections in the margins. Due to subsequent pressure from the Fundamentalists, they have since removed all of the marginal notes which would aid one to seeing that the King James translation was NOT true to the original Greek. Go find a 1901 American Standard. You will see these corrections in the margins.

    Just in case the reader thinks that these thoughts are simply the words of a dimwit who doesn't understand the original languages of the Bible, here are a few quotes from leading scholars on the same subject:

    Dr. R.F. Weymouth, a translator who was adept in Greek, states in The New Testament in
    Modern Speech (p. 657), “Eternal, Greek aeonian, i.e., of the ages: Etymologically this
    adjective, like others similarly formed does not signify, “during” but “belonging to” the aeons or ages.”

    Dr. Marvin Vincent, in his Word Studies of the New Testament (vol. IV, p. 59): “The
    adjective aionios in like manner carries the idea of time. Neither the noun nor the adjective IN THEMSELVES carries the sense of “endless” or “everlasting.” Aionios means enduring through or pertaining to a period of time. Out of the 150 instances in the LXX (Septuagint), four-fifths imply limited duration.” (Editor’s note: the rest of the time aionios takes on a greater meaning from the noun to which it is connected, usually God Himself or heaven.)
     
  2. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    surely somebody has a comment---I like it !!! I hate it !!! WOW never seen that before!!! whats your comment on the scriptures ???:wavey:
     
  3. RLBosley

    RLBosley
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,752
    Likes Received:
    0
  4. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    WOW Pls don't resort to bashing and calling it false doctrine friend..


    why don't you respond to the actual scriptures provided and try explaining them in the context they were written... pls pls pls :wavey::wavey:
     
  5. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,185
    Likes Received:
    207
    As usual those who take this position don't follow common rules of interpetation or don't know them. The term must be interpreted by its immediate context. For example, the same term is used to descibe the length of God's existence. Would you defend that God exists only for a finite "age"???? So use some common sense!

    When it refers to spiritual life that cannot be lost - Jn. 6:39-40 it cannot possibly be understood as finite time. When the same greek term is used in the same passage to describe existence in heaven and Gehenna (Mt. 25:46) with another Greek term that always means conscious suffering then your ship has been sunk.
     
  6. RLBosley

    RLBosley
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is false doctrine. I have responded to all that and more last time.

    Universalism is heresy. That is what you are proposing.
     
  7. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    do a study on it and youll see the difference friend :thumbs::thumbs:
     
  8. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    that's your view friend--you can be wrong because you DO NOT have 100% knowledge of ALL truth--so you can be blinded and NOT even know it---I would do some sincere and honest study on it for a while with an open mind--you just might see some truth!!!
     
  9. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,185
    Likes Received:
    207
    Friend, your presentation insufficiently reflects the full Biblical data. Deal with all the data rather than doing cherry picking! I gave you at least three examples where your position breaks down that you cannot possibly overturn (1) when it is used to describe God's length of existence; (2) when it is used to describe length of existence in heaven; (3) when it is used in the same text and context of eternity after the resurrection in regard to existence in heaven and hell with terms that demand conscious suffering.

    If you are going to present a study on a word, please be honest enough to provide the whole usage rather than simply picking a few. Your method is the method of all cults.
     
  10. RLBosley

    RLBosley
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's your view friend, you can be wrong because you are blinded to the truth. You should do some sincere and honest calling out to God in repentance. You might come to the knowledge of the truth!
     
    #10 RLBosley, Jul 6, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 6, 2013
  11. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    exactly !!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
     
  12. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    so you totally reject the scriptures presented that plainly shows FOR EVER as age lasting and NOT eternal ??
     
  13. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,185
    Likes Received:
    207
    Do you have a problem with reading and understanding English? Perhaps I failed in spelling out that your presentation is flawed because it is insufficient, because it does not truthfully reflect all the Biblical data. You have cherry picked what you wanted and igorned what you did not want.

    Are the three examples I provided any less Bibical uses than what you have provided? Either God is the author of confusion or you are choosing to ignore part of the Biblical evidence?

    Try being truthful with the evidence instead of playing this silly political type ploy of accusing me of rejecting your PARTIAL evidences when I have simply pointed out there is MORE uses than what you are admitting to.
     
  14. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    the scriptures speak for them selves--either for ever means eternal in all of its uses in the bible--or it means age lasting in its uses.

    so take the scriptures provided because all scriptures in the bible with for ever in them mean the same thing.

    what do they mean ???????????????
     
  15. Steadfast Fred

    Steadfast Fred
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,983
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wow!

    So our eternal God will one day cease to exist?

    Amazing!

    That is the only conclusion that we can arrive at if we are to believe the GQB (God questioning Baptist)

    *Disclaimer: the GQB in no way represents any Baptist that joined the BB prior to the GQB that is posting in this thread.
     
  16. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    instead of dealing with the scriptures--you are trying to figure it out through your false doctrine---that's a NO win situation.

    why not deal with the scriptures presented--I know you want because you are SCARED to see the TRUTH !!!

    so therefore youll keep rejecting it sadly :praying::praying::praying:
     
  17. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,185
    Likes Received:
    207
    What kind of god do you serve and believe in? A TEMPORAL one or an ETERNAL one? How do you define "eternal" when it is descriptive of God??? Answer that question if you dare?
     
  18. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2011
    Messages:
    14,185
    Likes Received:
    207
    I agree with your definition of the scriptures you gave because of their CONTEXT. However, what about the mass of scriptures using the same term that you IGNORED????? Do you simply cut out scriptures you don't like????

    Again, if you dare, what kind of god do you serve and believe in? A TEMPORAL god or an ETERNAL God? I would really like to know what God you serve?

    Do you believe that the meaning you gave is true about God??? Are you consistent with what you are teaching? Let's see?
     
  19. RLBosley

    RLBosley
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2012
    Messages:
    1,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Haha...

    I shouldn't have said anything about 3 letter acronyms.

    So you can call the orthodox Christian understanding of aeon "false doctrine." But when I call your unorthodox aberrancy "false doctrine" you get mad? :thumbsup:

    He serves a god who is not god.
     
  20. HisWitness

    HisWitness
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,483
    Likes Received:
    0
    still refusing to look at the scriptures I see---you never get anywhere UNTIL you start looking into them.:love2::love2:
     

Share This Page

Loading...