For God so loved the world

But your nonsensical response to the DETAILS of John 1 is...

With those kinds of non-response quips - how do you expect to review even one single "detail" listed??

It is a confusing approach to scripture that you are using.

In Christ,

Bob </font>[/QUOTE]Bob,


Most that you wrote i have adressed. I could repost the same words as you just did, but what would be the point?

i have asked 2 things before we go on.

1)..nor by the will of man...what does this mean? a very simple statement...you may want to add more to it later as we talk. but for just right now...in this passage..without pulling other verses...what does this one phrase mean? Again bob..i'm not asking you to set doctrine. we can later compare other passages to set doctrine...

one phrase....nor by the will of man

2nd...
you do not have to go into a big long meaning...but i just want to know..

do you believe in this one for all deed judgement?

this is not the right place to say if this is a good view or not..so i will not attack you. i want to know..so i can better address your post


Thanks..


In Christ..James

 

The point is that your position "needs" to pretend that John 1:13 is the only verse contained in John 1.

I have "shown" that a careful review of the first 13 verses does not allow the spin you seek to place on vs 13.

In my previous post I "show" how details pointed out in vs 4-9 POINT to an ARMINIAN conclusion.

You argue that vs 5-9 ARE NOT vs 13!!! How "logical is THAT"!!??\

quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vs 4-9 SHOWS that

"Light shines in DARKNESS" - the entire world is said to be in darkness not just the jews.
"so that ALL might believe through Him" Unqualified - the message of John in the Gospels has gone to all the WORLD.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But your nonsensical response to the DETAILS of John 1 is just to point out that vs 4-9 IS NOT the spin you are seeking with vs 13...


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JAmes said
*******************
NOPE...nothing here about "nor by the will of man"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And you are actually "satisfied with that"???

See 4-9 for perhaps the first time.

Calvinists will sometime place such a spin on one verse in a chapter that they can not “Afford” to see the details in the entire chapter – that do not support that “spin”.

In the case of John 1 – it is sometimes seen that Calvinists want to get vs 13 “in a vacuum” as if the rest of the chapter (and all its Calvinist disconfirm details) did not exist.

It is particularly helpful to those who do that – to avoid vs 4-9 and misdirect from the clear scope of the gospel message shown there.

#1. Christ is the Light of Mankind (not just the FEW of Matt7)
#2. The Light “shines in darkness” not just to “believers”.
#3. Not all to whom that light is sent – will accept it.
#4. Yet the ministry and MISSION of that Gospel light is so that “ALL might believe”
#5. Christ is the light that COMING Into the WORLD enlightens EVERY one of mankind not merely a downsized-Gospel for “All-of-the-FEW of Matt 7”.

Sometimes when confronted with these disconfirming facts – a Calvinist will simply respond in effect “yes but that is inconvenient to the focus I prefer when reading vs 13 alone”.

 

The point is that WHEN I point to the "details" of vs 4-9 and you RESPOND with "that is not vs 13" (in effect) you SHOW your need to obfuscate AWAY from the context and full meaning of chapter 1.

How much more obvious can this point be?


quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vs 4-9 SHOWS that

"Light shines in DARKNESS" - the entire world is said to be in darkness not just the jews.
"so that ALL might believe through Him" Unqualified - the message of John in the Gospels has gone to all the WORLD.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But your nonsensical response to the DETAILS of John 1 is just to point out that vs 4-9 IS NOT the spin you are seeking with vs 13...


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JAmes said
*******************
NOPE...nothing here about "nor by the will of man"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And you are actually "satisfied with that"???

 

#1. Christ is the Light of Mankind (not just the FEW of Matt7)
#2. The Light “shines in darkness” not just to “believers”.
#3. Not all to whom that light is sent – will accept it.
#4. Yet the ministry and MISSION of that Gospel light is so that “ALL might believe”
#5. Christ is the light that COMING Into the WORLD enlightens EVERY one of mankind not merely a downsized-Gospel for “All-of-the-FEW of Matt 7”.

Sometimes when confronted with these disconfirming facts – a Calvinist will simply respond in effect “yes but that is inconvenient to the focus I prefer when reading vs 13 alone”. </font>[/QUOTE]James
*************************

That is just plain not true bob. After i repost you need to share with the board how you mislead..

I have in fact...address every verse.

It is you that WILL NOT address ONE...WHY!!!!!!


this is sad

 

one more thing before i repost...verse 13 is not a spin..its the bible


In Christ...james

 

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1534/10.html#000149


http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1534/10.html#000143

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1511/11.html#000160

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1511/11.html#000162

Here are just 4 times I have went over verse by verse each verse in john 1...there are other times

the 3rd link is goes to the end of the chapter


AGAIN…I have address each verse in john 1 and 3 Bob…why can you not address 6 words?? WHY??

 

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1543/6.html#000075

man..i forgot this one right before you started to hide from verse 13..at the very TOP OF THIS PAGE

HELLO????

 

It is rather clear..is it not King?

In Christ..James

 

Paul Simon sang a song “must be 50 ways to leave your lover”

Some on this forum sing

” Must be 50 ways to avoid the question”

Just avoid the facts Jack…

Give a new meaning or plan Sam…

No need to read the text Roy…..Just listen to me

Hop to a new verse Gus..No need to discuss this one to much..

This word needs to be changed..Jane and it will set your soul free.


Can I hear an Amen?

 

Note - I LIST the texts making the points THEN I NUMBERED the unnanswered points..

To which we get the "very compelling repsonse"

How can you answer that one!!

What details!!

What compelling logic!

I give up!

In Christ,

Bob

 

Your link above avoids John 1 "completely"

I am checking the others to see if this "Same attention to detail" is showing up as a "pattern".

your link above - begins as follows - and stays in chapter 3.

But that seems to "work for KJB" so maybe it is only Arminians that would see that as "illogical"

In Christ,

Bob

 

That is "all we get" for a "detailed response to the points raised in vs 4-11.

Shall we number those points again?

 

That is "all we get" for a "detailed response to the points raised in vs 4-11.

Shall we number those points again? </font>[/QUOTE]you are a trip bob.

This is unreal.....


Now listen Bob..and take notes.
We have been over this many times.....
your 5 points...
*********************
#1. Christ is the Light of Mankind (not just the FEW of Matt7)

i agree 100% do you get it? yet? i agree 100%

#2. The Light “shines in darkness” not just to “believers”.

i agree 100% do you get it? yet? i agree 100%

#3. Not all to whom that light is sent – will accept it.

i agree 100% do you get it? yet? i agree 100%

#4. Yet the ministry and MISSION of that Gospel light is so that “ALL might believe”

i agree 100% do you get it? yet? i agree 100%

#5. Christ is the light that COMING Into the WORLD enlightens EVERY one of mankind not merely a downsized-Gospel for “All-of-the-FEW of Matt 7”.

ok...now we get back to my 1st thing that you NEVER did answer. it has taken 2 pages to get to this.

************************
http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/35/1543/6.html#000075

WHAT DOES ENLIGHTEN MEAN BOB? go back one page in this tread or click on the link above. Do you understand?

now... reread my post were you jumped in. i answer your points for the 1000 time...now please answer mine...

is that fair?????

do you understand??????

Look above bob...i said i agree with 1-4 now...please drop that part..ok?
you are not reading my post...or you avoid them
just look at point 5...ok?

Lets try to answer one thing. do you follow me..or do you need more help?


In Christ..James

 

let me repost bob.

again..no need to go from verse 1 to verse 8...i understand...I AGREE

just what i asked below...

GOT IT?
********************************

9 The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world.
******* enlightens. The light..that is Christ from the above text. i think we agree. what does that enlightens mean?

1) Does it mean all now can be saved because the light has now come?
2) Does it mean all will be saved, for they are now enlightened?
3) Does it mean once man was bind from sins but now that the light came...he now is enlighten to see?
4) something else...

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through him, yet the world knew him not.
*****going with what you pick in verse 9...what does 10 mean? OR do you think this is a new thought? if it is a new thought..why do you think so?


13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
******* now...how does this one verse fit in your doctrine above? mainly...not the will of man?


In Christ...James

 

All are in darkness.

ALL have had the light given to them -- so they may CHOOSE light or darkness.

Christ stands at the door of ALL and knocks. ALL may choose to either OPEN the door and then be in UNION with Christ or REMAIN inside and alone.

(Hint: Even Calvinism has a hard time describing regeneration as NOT being in UNION with Christ)

ALL are DRAWN --

ALL are CONVICTED by that Light - of sin and righteousness and judgment.

BUT ALL are not REQUIRED to accept that light.

Hence ALL are 'enabled to choose'.

In Christ,

Bob

 

9 The true light that enlightens every man was coming into the world.
******* enlightens. The light..that is Christ from the above text. i think we agree. what does that enlightens mean?
1) Does it mean all now can be saved because the light has now come?
2) Does it mean all will be saved, for they are now enlightened?
3) Does it mean once man was bind from sins but now that the light came...he now is enlighten to see?
4) something else...

just being clear here bob...

is your pick 1,2 3,4?

Thanks...

In Christ...James