For the "pro female pastor" folks

Actually if God had not wanted women to serve as pastors, leaders in the Christian home, deacons, teachers of men, etc. He would have made that clear in His Word.... Wait, that's just what He did.

 

OT prophets are not the same as shepherds and overseers in the NT. So I don't think that having women prophets in the OT means it's okay to have pastors today.

 

Where is the scripture to show Priscilla taught? Where is it stated that Paul sent Apollos to Priscilla? It's not there.

In Act 18.19, it says Paul left P and A while he went into the synagogue to reason with the Jews.

This does not say:
1. That Paul sent Apollos to Priscilla
2. It does not mention Priscilla teaching Apollos.

It simply says that P & A took Apollos aside and explained "the way of God more accurately." This is really thin ice for saying a woman can be a pastor. And when you look at other NT passages, the ice totally crumbles.

 

a. We have three women "ministers," but they are not "pastors."
b. Yes.
c. No.
d. No.

Although I would not vote for Kirkpatrick or Rice, I would agree that I would vote for the right woman. I think that the women presently on the bench have done a good job....for the most part. As for the military, I was never in the military so I really cannot answer that question.

 

Wow.........

 

So ecomnomics thwarts your theology? What about Prov. 31:10-31, "10 An excellent wife, who can find? For her worth is far above jewels. 11 The heart of her husband trusts in her, And he will have no lack of gain. 12 She does him good and not evil All the days of her life. 13 She looks for wool and flax And works with her hands in delight. 14 She is like merchant ships; She brings her food from afar. 15 She rises also while it is still night And gives food to her household And portions to her maidens. 16 She considers a field and buys it; From her earnings she plants a vineyard. 17 She girds herself with strength And makes her arms strong. 18 She senses that her gain is good; Her lamp does not go out at night. 19 She stretches out her hands to the distaff, And her hands grasp the spindle. 20 She extends her hand to the poor, And she stretches out her hands to the needy. 21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household, For all her household are clothed with scarlet. 22 She makes coverings for herself; Her clothing is fine linen and purple. 23 Her husband is known in the gates, When he sits among the elders of the land. 24 She makes linen garments and sells [them], And supplies belts to the tradesmen. 25 Strength and dignity are her clothing, And she smiles at the future. 26 She opens her mouth in wisdom, And the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. 27 She looks well to the ways of her household, And does not eat the bread of idleness. 28 Her children rise up and bless her; Her husband also, and he praises her, sayin]: 29 "Many daughters have done nobly, But you excel them all." 30 Charm is deceitful and beauty is vain, But a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised. 31 Give her the product of her hands, And let her works praise her in the gates.

Do you not believe what it says in the Bible in Prov. 31:16, "She considers a field and buys it; From her earnings she plants a vineyard."

 

Carpinator, please show us your Biblical reasoning for believing that women should not serve in ANY position of authority. There have been posts in this thread showing where women have been placed in positions of authority (outside the Church) over men.

On a side note, don't confuse the possible problems with one woman serving as President with what could happen with all women. I assume you are speaking about Clinton; which couldn't turn out well whether she was a man or woman. However, there are women that could do a tremendous job as POTUS.

 

I agree with carpinator.
Here is the Biblical reason for it.
God made Adam first and then Eve.
In all of God's economy there is a "chain of command" (if you will) which cannot be broken without dire consequences. Since sin has entered the world, we will not see this perfect order of authority and submission this side of Glory.
But the IDEAL order of authroity is that which is outlined in the NT.
1. God the Father
2. God the Son
3. Man
4. Woman
5. Children

Children ought to submit to the authority of their parents, wives to their husbands, man to Christ, Christ to God the Father. This is NOT just for the church. It is for ALL of society. Or do you suppose that God only reigns in the church?

This is the Biblical order for authority and submission. When any of God's ways are corrupted, we humans suffer untold problems as direct consequences for such violations of God's order of things.

Women should never be in authority over men, in any sphere of society or influence. It is a recipe for confusion.

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Jim,
If this is the order that God would have us follow, why did He not always follow it Himself?In Judges Chapter 4 we see evidence of a woman Judge, selected by God to lead His chosen people. In fact, she is one of my favorite leaders mentioned in the Bible. While the order you mentioned does make sense, especially given your reasoning... I just can't make it fit within the framework God has given us. For the same reason I can feel confident when saying that a woman should not serve as a Pastor, I feel confident saying that a woman can serve in other rolls of authority, especially in political matters.

 

The Carpinator/av1611jim
We are going to get along just fine, as long you don't move overhere, take over my church and try to get me fired.....

 

Mr. Carpinator, a few years ago, my daughters and I created a buzz when we went down to our little courthouse and "unregistered" ourselves. We were staunch Republicans, but after doing some studying, and much prayer, and of course, counsel with our husbands, we took this step. My youngest daughter (Farmer's Wife, who used to post here) is married to my pastor (who was the farmer), wrote an article that can be found on the first site-there's also a good one written by another on the second site.

http://www.balaams-ass.com/journal/homemake/voting.htm

www.ladiesagainstfeminism.com/artman/publish/article_1266.shtml

 

What a bunch or garbage! Because God's Word says that women are to submit to THEIR husbands, does not mean they are to submit to EVERYBODY'S husbands! God made a mistake when He appointed Deborah judge of Israel? What an un-biblical bunch of hogwash! Carpinator and granny, you need to read God's Word with an open heart and mind, not with an IFB branded one! Granny I'm glad you relinquished your right to vote. With that kind of logic, it is for the better.

 

I should make it clear that I don't hold to an across-the-board view that woman can be pastors. My view has been that the Bible has some scriptural support for the idea of banning a woman from the role of pastor, though the passages are subject to interpretation. As an SBC member, I support the church ban on women pastors. However, scripturally, woman are not banned from preaching, nor are they banned from teaching in general. Each church needs to decide for itself to what level women can play, and each church should support other churches who make those decisions for themselves.

No.

Yes.

Yes and no. (Father died at a young age).

No.

Pres, or SCOTUS, sure. Military, I'm undecided. I think women in the military opens up a can of worms. However, I can't find scripture to support the ban of women who wish to serve their country via military service.

 

Since your view is not scripturally supported, you cannot make this view a moral or doctrinal mandate for all Christians.

Sorry to say this, but your view of women in general is sexist and unrighteous. You're guilty of a sinful attitude towards women. I'm not telling you this to sit upon judgement over you, I'm telling you this so you recognize your condition and provide an opportunity for personal repentence. I'm telling you this, not because I dislike you, but just the opposite. I do like you. I love you as a Christian brother, and hope you see the spiritual damage your view is doing to you.

 

Not only is his view unsupported, it is contrary to examples given in scripture. The Bible does not denounce queens, female judges, prophetesses, female business women, nor female heads of households though all of these are written about.

The Bible places restrictions on women. It is clear that they were not intended to pastor. It is equally clear that they were not intended to exercise authority nor teach men in the church though Priscilla gives us an exception for private discipleship.

There is no need to add nor subtract from what God has said.

 

What about the women whose husbands abuse them and the only people they feel like confiding in is a woman pastor??

 

They should obey scripture and go to an elder sister in the church. Pragmatism never trumps scripture.

There is no such animal as a "woman pastor" biblically speaking. "Pastor" meaning overseer/elder.

Women can minister to women... they cannot hold a position of pastor over men.

 

But, can women minister to men? One need not be a pastor or teacher to minister. Certainly, I can see the reason for having a ban on woman pastors as scriptural. But in other aspects, it's really up to the individual churches and their customs.

Just a thought. What thinks you?

 

Scott, thank you.
Faithgirl