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Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Grasshopper, Jul 23, 2008.
here's over an hour of it:
Loved it! Ergun Caner is a coward.
And what does scripture declare about such a person who degrades, puts down, demeans, and slanders their brethren in Christ? It states that followers should not be known to do such.
All of these illistrate a hatred towards another regardless of if that person will or will not acknowledge it.
We are not to slander one another (even if they do it to us) but are to love the brethren and calling them "cowards" and other such ad hominems only convey the malice that burns in one's own heart already.
Our conversation of one another should not consist of a two sided opinion. On one side of our mouth we 'claim' to love our brethren and then from the other side declare them cowards or any other such words that besmearch the character of Christ of whom they are.
It is apparent that babes are prone to this type of thing, let us go on toward that which grows us toward maturity.
When we do such and begin name calling and character assinations, regardless of how harmless we pretend them to be, we are being like those of the world and carnal in contrast that which is from above.
We need to remember that we are no different nor better than those believers we set forth to put down.
Watched the whole thing. No wonder Caner won't debate White.
The beginning piece (the Star Wars styled legend in the opening sequence) is not entirely accurate. But then again you can get two different sides to this same story, it just depends on who you want to listen to if you don't take the time to get all the facts yourself. Both blame the other but the fact is is that both groups are the reason it fell through. Both groups were childish in the whole endevor with their name calling, accusations, et.. (and that was before it fell through)
Mr. Caner is cowardly in this case. Can the word ever be applied?He will avoid facing the music at all costs. He's following Dave Hunt in that respect.
On a sidenote -- a few years ago when the volleys were being fired between the two camps, I had a non-Calvinist friend listen to one of Caner's sermons. It was a tirade against his twisted idea of what Calvinism consists. I listened with my friend.Though a n-c he was throughly disgusted with EC.My friend said that was a shameful "sermon".
Not if one desires to walk in the Spirit and unity with Christ.
Oh, no question he, just as his counter-part James White, have embarrassed the Christian community by their unchristlike attitudes and attacks one each other and others persons beliefs.
This is malarkey - if one is afraid to defend their doctrine, thus how they understand, defend and honor Christ - particularly to the degree that Caner avoided White and the bloviating and ungracious manner he displayed - that is cowardly.
In other words, he talked trash, then ran when it came time to "put up or shut up".
Unity is not sought after at all costs - if you believe this, you should go ahead and join the Roman Catholic Church.
Unity is about being in the same mind as Christ and that means aligning your entire self to His Word through His Spirit.
Defending the faith and holding poor teachers accountable for their "personal beliefs" (ugh, sounds very individualistic and man-centered - vs orthodox or biblical beliefs - a prime reason the Christian faith is in the state it is) is biblical.
Ergun Caner "I am elected because I selected."
This turns my stomach.
It was not Caner who backed out, but both parties were equally unchristlike in their attitudes and accusations.
Again, it was not Caner who backed out, but that does not excuse neither his nor Whites actions throughout it.
Amongst believers yes, the holy writ states that unity and peace are to be sought unless you disagree with scripture. However this particular point regarding scripture isn't about a difference in a doctrinal point-of-view but about attitudes, actions, and accusation against their persons, and it to this that I bring the scriptures truth to bare. We are to defend the the truth but not like the world would through ad hominems, demeening comments, charactor accusations, et.. Like being called a coward when in fact he is no more a "coward" than you are, or me.
It is at this point 1 John 3 makes a clear distinction of those who truely love the brethren and those who show only lip service and love as the apostle puts it like Cain did. Oh he loved his brother but it also didn't bother him to kill him either. That last part should take the reader back the sermon on the Mount and Jesus words about killing.
But they are of the same mind and believe the exact same immutable truths, unless you are declaring that Caner is in fact unsaved. Calvinism differs nothing from the Non-Cal's regarding the immutable truths we only differ on the mechanics of some of the points we hold. So they are of the same mind as Christ and that they align themselves to His word through His Spirit.
Neither is defending the faith, that is misnomer. They are defending their understanding (personal beliefs) of the mechanics regarding the immutable truths that all believers hold dear and agree on.
Anyone that reads the dialogue on White or Ascol's site will see otherwise. They were treated most uncharitably.
And yes, I read Caner's site, too - more bloviation and crawfishing.