For Whose Benefit was the Bible Written ?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by pinoybaptist, Oct 12, 2007.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist
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    1st Corinthians 10:11 says:

    "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

    and Romans 15:4 says:

    "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."

    The writer of both Scriptures, of course, was Paul, and his subject was the disobedient Jews or disobedient and rebellious Israel. Now, if whatever was written was written as example, admonition, and learning tool of all mankind, wouldn't the Holy Spirit, whom we all profess to believe to be the true author of Scripture, say so ?

    I have read the Bible cover to cover, fast and slowly, and have yet to see a specific Scripture that says the Bible and the Word of God was written for the salvation, learning, and benefit of all mankind.

    Does anybody have such a Scripture ?

    I may have missed it.
     
  2. SBCPreacher

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    As I asked on that other thread, if the Bible was not written to lost people also, then how are they to learn of Jesus and His offer of salvation? Why does God have to tell those who are already His, "For 'whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved'"? (Romans 10:13, NKJV) Don't those who already belong to Him know this? Why even mention it?
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    With all due respects, that will be an altogether different topic, because my question there is : saved from what ?
     
  4. canadyjd

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    John 17:14; "I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.....(17)Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth......(19)For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth (20)I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word....

    The Word of God was given to sanctify believers (to "separate" or "distinguish" or "set apart" them) from the world.

    Hope that answers your question.

    peace to you:praying:
     
    #4 canadyjd, Oct 12, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2007
  5. webdog

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    I find it contradictory to state that the Bible was only given to the "sheep"...but these same hold to the position that every human being is born "dead".
     
  6. canadyjd

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    Rom 1:18 "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth...."

    They are saved from the "wrath of God".

    peace to you:praying:
     
  7. canadyjd

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    I don't follow your logic.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  8. webdog

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    If the Bible is not for the lost...every time a truth from Scripture is given to them, read by them, or said to them...how would that not be a lie to them?
     
  9. webdog

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    If everyone is born dead...the Bible must be for nobody.
     
  10. canadyjd

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    2Cor.2:14 "But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and manifests through the sweet aroma of the knowledge of Him in every place (15)For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing; (16) to the one an aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life."

    The truth of scripture is never a lie. There is a two-fold purpose. It will either bring someone to the acceptance of the truth of Jesus Christ and to salvation, or reaffirm their condemnation for rejecting the revelation of God; specifically His perfect revelation in His Son.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  11. pinoybaptist

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    I agree with this, with a little rephrasing.
    It will bring someone to (timely) salvation (their acceptance of the truth of Jesus Christ is proof of their eternal salvation already possessed).....
    or reaffirm their (eternal) condemnation ...

     
  12. pinoybaptist

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    Evidently, Paul does not find it contradictory. Neither do any of the writers in the New Testament since none of them contradicted Paul to say that the Scriptures were for all mankind's learning.

    Let me put my position this way.

    God elected His people in Christ before the foundation of the world, He wrote their names in the Lamb's Book of Life before the foundation of the world, the plan to save these people from hellfire and eternal condemnation is a plan that was agreed upon by the Triune God from the foundation of the world.

    Everything that God planned was planned with eternity future in view. The final destination of His people, led by His Son, will be in His presence, in eternity future. Their salvation was for eternity future, not for this timely world.

    Notice that the Bible begins with "In the beginning" and the scene of the creation, and ends with Amen, in Revelation, and the scene of eternity future.

    Because Christ is Eternal God Himself, positionally His blood has already been shed, and effective for His people, in eternity past, or there would be nothing that washed Moses, Enoch, and Elijah clean of their sins.

    Therefore, because in the mind and intent of the Eternal God His people are already seated, in Christ, in heavenly places, their eternal salvation is a finished fact for Him, sealed and finalized, IN TIME, at the cross.

    All those who needs to be saved, are already saved.

    However, not all those who are already saved, are regenerate, which is what the Holy Spirit is accomplishing at this poin in time, apart from human means, any human means. He knows those who are His, and in His own due time, He will quicken them.

    After they are quickened, IF HE SO WILLS for them, He will bring them to a hearing of the Gospel, the good news of their finished eternal salvation, and to the learning of Scriptures, and from such learning, the way of Kingdom living, and His people will learn of how He deals with His people through the history of His dealings with Israel in the past.

    I say IF HE SO WILLS, because remember that everything He has done is for His glory, that He may be glorified in, and by, His saints, and "in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness to us through Christ Jesus"(Ephesians 2:7).

    There are those of His own who will never hear the gospel of their finished salvation, either because they are infants, unable to comprehend, or caught up in their religion (remember Paul's lament about God's people among Judaism in Romans 9 and 10).

    Those who never get to hear the gospel, join a gospel church, and live a gospel life, will not know the blessings of God in this fallen world, but they were never saved for this world, and God's purposes for them are not of this world.

    Therefore, I maintain that the Bible was written not for the benefit of humankind, but for the benefit of those whom God will call to a gospel church, the believers (as differentiated from His elect).

    Canadyjd says "saved from wrath". True. But, timely wrath, because the eternal wrath of God has already been satisfied in Christ and by Christ at the cross of Calvary. Either that is true, or that is false, take your pick.
     
  13. canadyjd

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    I think we have gone through this before. I believe salvation is appropriated by faith. If I remember correctly, you do not believe faith is necessary for salvation. Am I remembering correctly? If so, we must continue to disagree. Thanks for the discourse.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  14. Alex Quackenbush

    Alex Quackenbush
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    The Word of God is for all of humanity. It is God's communication to man, His revelation to man. It reveals the gospel for the unsaved, morality for the benefit of all mankind and spiritual truths for the edification and maturity of the believer.
     
  15. pinoybaptist

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    to your first point:
    When did the word of God, according to Scriptures, start to be for all humanity ? From the beginning ? Scripture for that, please. Scripture that is specific, and not inferred.

    to your second point:
    the gospel is a revelation to the redeemed people of God, not to the unredeemed. It brings life and immortality to light (2 Timothy 1:10).

    to the first sub-point: mankind has never been bereft of morality of some kind. as a matter of fact, all religions, before God revealed His Name to a national people, were based on moralities, sets of do's and dont's.

    your second sub-point is the only one I can agree with at this juncture.
     
  16. Alex Quackenbush

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    Many things are inferred and drawn out of Scripture. It is only the theological simpleton that requires direct statements on all matters from Scripture in order to make theological determinations.

    But to answer your question, when did the Word of God, according to Scripture, start to be for all humanity? Since Adam. And in Scripture we discover God's Word being taught and spoken to believers and unbelievers alike. Strange John the Baptist would preach (God's Word) to unbelievers. What a waste and contradiction by God to have His own prophet preach His Word to unbelievers. Hmmm. And that is but one example of God communicating to unbelievers.

    Cain was obviously instructed in the Word of God, he knew to bring an offering to worship God but clearly was an unbeliever and decided to corrupt the right way and make it his way. So if God determined His Word was not for unbelievers then tell me why, friend, would he insure its instruction to Cain?

    Your want of some direct statement that says in the Bible, "God's Word is for all of humanity" reminds me of someone standing before 1,500 acres of dense tree growth and saying, "Show me a forest, show me a sign that says, THIS IS A FOREST, all I see right now are about 25 trees!"

    As for this comment:

    I challenge you with the reality that morality began before the SPECIFIC MORALITY for the theocracy of Israel that you seem to imagine is the beginning of codified morality in both civil and religious bodies and any body like that which prescribed morality COULDN'T trace it to Jehovah because obviously they hadn't met up with Israel yet but had a form of morality.

    WRONG.

    The SPECIFIC code of morality for the Theocracy of Israel, while specific and in possession of some unique details isn't the beginning of morality from God for humanity.

    Morality began with the prohibition against eating from The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Subsequent to the disobedience of Adam and Eve were the development of additional moral codes prescribed for humanity. We see murder being forbidden as one example.

    And it is clear by implication that mankind had been given extensive moral guidelines because during the time of Noah evidenced by these two verses in Genesis 6

    Without an extensive moral code from God mankind could not have been determined to be doing wickedly and what is right in his OWN eyes and more importantly Noah could not have been BLAMELESS among the people of his time without a moral code from which to compare Noah's behavior and determine we has a righteous person.

    So you are kidding yourself if you believe morality is traceable only to Israel and other cultures and peoples simply drew up morality based on self-evident ideology. Whatever sense of morality even the most appearingly pagan people have they ultimately have God as their source for its origins. Hence, morality being part of the Word of God is for all of humanity.
     
  17. pinoybaptist

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    Oh, so, wise master, this pitiful brown skinned inferior human being is also a theological simpleton because he does not speak the fanciful English that yourself does ?

    Well, okay.

    Now, here's to be a little bit more of a simpleton. The Bible is the written word of God. In case it escaped your dazzling brilliance: the OP asked "For Whose Benefit Was the Bible Written" ?

    Pray tell, the story of Adam and Eve is a written part of the written word,
    did Adam and Eve have the Bible ?

    Second simpleton question: Did the Amalekites, the Gibeonites, the Jebusites, the Hittites, and all the other "Biblical" tribes with whom Israel clashed, and some of whom God ordered Israel to destroy utterly, have the written word of God ? Is there a Scripture recounting an instance where God told the Israelites to "spread the word" to their enemy tribes ?

    Third simpleton question: Were there no Chinese during those times when God was manifesting Himself to Israel, and handing down the Torah to them ? No Japanese people ? No Indonesian peoples ? No South Asian and Southeast Asian peoples ?

    If your answer is they were extant then, so how did they come to possess the written word of God, a.k.a. the Bible ?

    The Scriptures are clear:

    Paul writes to the Romans - Whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our (it will be interesting to see such a brilliant theological mind as yours try and justify that Paul meant the whole mankind with his use of the word "our") learning, that we (I take this to mean him and the Romans, and by extension, those who handle and hear the word of God, written and preached. But, what do I know, eh ? can't even tie my shoelaces...belly's blocking my view. Perhaps you know better, eh ?) through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.

    Paul, again writes to the Corinthians - Now all these things happened unto them (who's them ? can you enlighten this theological simpleton ?) for ensamples: and they are written for our (who's our ? could it be Paul and the Corinthians ? Or do you say it is Paul and all humanity) admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. (Now, certainly, Adam and Eve were not of those upon whom the ends of the world are come. Or, could your theological brilliance prove they are, indeed ?).


    All right, I will grant you that my question in the OP assumes that those who try to answer this will see that by Word of God, I mean the printed word of God, the Bible, the 66 Books, the Old and the New Testament, KJV, NKJV, Tyndale, Latin Vulgate, Young's Literal Translation, NASB, ASV, NASV, and a host of other translations.

    But, leave it to a theological simpleton to assume that all readers will understand.

    But that simply illustrates the point, O Brilliant One. Who benefited by John's preaching ? Believers. Who were told they were damned ? Unbelievers. And you are referring to the preached word. Let me repeat the question:

    For whose benefit was the Bible written ?

    Let me stress it a little more: For whose benefit were the Torah, the Prophets, the Books of Wisdom, the Books of History, the New Testament, the Pauline Epistles, and the General Epistles, and the Apocalypse, written ? WRITTEN ? as in using ink and papyrus, as in using the press ?


    Of course he knew God's preached word, it was handed down to him by Adam himself, what's the matter with you ? That's like Sitting Bull's son knowing exactly the beginnings of the Battle of Little Big Horn, why it came about and what happened. He corrupted God's word because he is not OF GOD. He is not a brethren to Christ. He is not one of God's own, his name is not written in the Book of Life. He is a type of Anti-Christ.

    Your failure to understand the reason for my question is a direct reflection of your opinion as to my mental capacity, your opinion of yourself as theologically superior to this small, brown-skinned, big-bellied, Filipino pretender to the English language. :BangHead:

    There was a thread where I offered that the Bible was not written for the benefit of all humanity, and I was challenged, and decided to start this thread instead of hijacking another.

    So, please, answer the question: FOR WHOSE BENEFIT WAS THE BIBLE (the 66 Books, the Old and New Testament) WRITTEN ? What does Scripture say ?

    I offered two Scriptures that say the Bible was written for the benefit of believers only.

    Now, give your Scriptures that say the Bible was written for the benefit of all humankind.

    Now, this is where your brilliance is too dazzling you couldn't even read the statement of this theological simpleton correctly.

    My only response to this is: HUH ? :confused: :confused:
    Here's what I said: "mankind has never been bereft of morality of some kind. as a matter of fact, all religions, before God revealed His Name to a national people, were based on moralities, sets of do's and dont's.

    Let me expand on that some more. From the garden, a sense of right and wrong, do's and dont's, are in all descendants of Adam and Eve. I would suggest you start your own thread on this theological mind-flash of yours, good sir, and stick to the question:

    FOR WHOSE BENEFIT WAS THE BIBLE (El Biblia, 66 Books, some include the Apocrypha) WRITTEN ?
     
    #17 pinoybaptist, Oct 14, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2007

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