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Featured Forced to serve?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Jereynolds, Aug 31, 2012.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Excellent post. The whole idea is totally unacceptable. If there is a local church out there that has established that as their rules, then that is their right, as long as they can find enough members to join in such nonsense. I want no part of it.

    There are two obeservations about a church that would have such a policy. One is that there must be a bunch of pew sitters and the leadership in the church is so pathetic they cannot pursuade, so they dictate. Two, is they must not have much in the way of discipleship or standards for joining for having that many non helpers in the first place.
     
  2. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Luke 2427 posted...

    Oh my word.

    After all of your years as a christian, you are amitting that you know nothing regarding God speaking to you. My brother, seriously, you need to dig into this subject. Seriously. You just dont know what you are missing.

    Connecting with God in prayer,and hearing back from Him, is one of the great blessings of being a Christian. And sometimes God chooses to initiate the comunication..without our asking for it at all!

    I feel sorrow regarding this great blessing being missing in your life.

    I will pray that God will somehow introduce you to this great blessing of actually *hearing* from our great heavenly Father.
     
  3. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Where to begin?

    Let's start with your mistaken notion that the Scripture saying, "Serve the Lord with gladness" has ANYTHING to do with not feeling obligated to do all kinds of things you don't like for the Body's sake.

    I don't like vomit, but I cleaned up a little kid's vomit the other day because the child was part of a family we carried bowling trying to befriend them and encourage them to plug into church.

    I didn't have to pray about it. I didn't have to "feel led" or "feel called". I simply employed Scriptural wisdom.

    Was I glad to do it? I was glad to serve the Lord but I was not glad about wiping up slimy vomit that seeped through the paper towels and stcuk to my hands.

    It didn't MATTER that I did not feel "called" (whatever that means). I had a duty.

    Secondly, this "setting one's self up to be the Holy Spirit telling people..." stuff is, to me, idiotic.


    It's this weirdo belief that the Holy Spirit somehow "tells" people such stuff that is killing the church today.

    If what people meant by that was that the Holy Spirit guides through Scripture and Providence- fine.

    But what is usually meant is the Holy Spirit speaks through some "feeling".

    The way you are supposed to make decisions is through WISDOM- not super-spiritual sensations and fickle feelings.

    Should I keep the nursery this month? Can I? Do I have the ability? Should I? Is this the right thing to do? Will it help the Kingdom?

    This is how you make decisions- not some stupid feelings.
     
  4. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Can I speak frankly with you about this?
     
  5. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    Exactly.
    ______
     
  6. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    God speaks to me through His Word and I feel it...
     
  7. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    First of all, feelings are not stupid, people are. Who said anything about feelings making the decision? Another strawman. Should I keep the nursery this month, you ask. Well, if I have the ability and it helps the Kingdom, yes one should. What does that have to do with penalizing a kid for a parent not serving in the nursery?

    You said it is fine if someone is lead through the Holy Spirit, not some feeling. How do you know the difference within another individual? Do you have a Holy Spirit detector?

    Because you come to a conclusion of serving or not serving by a certain manner does not mean that everyone follows your model. Also, the implication that those who differ in opinion are too lazy or some mystical reason to not work for the Lord is simply not true. I totally differ in opinion with you, and I am going to guess I at least at a minimum spend the time, effort, and money to serve as you do.

    Flawed opinions do not translate into correct statements.
     
  8. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    exactly wrong............
     
    #48 saturneptune, Sep 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2012
  9. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer New Member

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    Feeling obligated -- How many unsaved and lukewarm Christians have no sense of obligation to serve the Lord? And, on the other side of the coin, how many, feel convicted to do whatever is required to serve the Lord, regardless of how mundane, tiring, distasteful, a particular act of serving may entail.

    Feeling obligated, feeling led -- What's the difference? Isn't this just different words saying the same thing?

    I can't speak for anyone else. I've never heard the Holy Spirit "telling" me "stuff". Rather than using the word "feeling", a better word for my life is "awareness". That word avoids tying "feelings" to "emotions" as some people like to do, when discounting the role the Spirit plays in the life of others.

    "Awareness" can be tied to "obligation", "duty", responsibility, accountability, compassion, and a host of other terms. At times, I'm very much aware of the presence of the Holy Spirit and can't think of any "emotional" word that can convey that sense of awareness. Most often it happens when I suddenly understand, for the first time, a passage of scripture that I've read for years and didn't fully comprehend. It's not that my feeble mind became more capable. It's not because I had a sudden emotional upheaval. Far from it in either instance.

    Sometimes that awareness is simply realizing what the right thing to do in a set of circumstances. It is my "duty", "obligation", conviction, or whatever similar word. Does your sense of "duty" come from yourself or from a higher power?

    Sometimes that awareness comes about when there's something that I should do that I don't want to do. Without going into detail, I "had" to tell my pastor not to do something he planned to do. The more I resisted doing so, the stronger the conviction (awareness) became that I had to talk to him in person. Long story short. I did talk to him. He tried to do it anyway. The Lord intervened and he didn't accomplish what he set out to do.

    One other point. There are many things that I do to serve the Lord that don't fall into the definition of gladness meaning enjoyment. No, I do not "enjoy" unstopping and cleaning up an overflowing commode. Nor working all day in miserable weather conditions for a church event. Nor coming home with feet and legs so tired and hurting that I can't go to sleep. Yet, I am GLAD that I had the opportunity to serve our Lord in some small capacity.

    If our church had made any of these things a "requirement" in order to serve/worship our Lord, I would have left the church. The sense of obligation and duty to serve our Lord should come from a willing heart and not because an earthly ruler(s) mandates what actions we must perform in His service.

    If these are "stupid feelings" how can you say.....
    Aren't some of those questions the same types of questions that Moses asked, especially the one concerning ability? If Moses had relied on his own WISDOM would the Hebrews still be in Egypt?

    What is the role of the Holy Spirit in your life today? Are you ever aware of His presence?
     
  10. Oldtimer

    Oldtimer New Member

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    AMEN! :thumbsup:
     
  11. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Of course you can.
     
  12. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Well folks who do not want to serve in the nursery do not have to. they just do not get to use the nursery for their child.
     
  13. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    So we do away with grace? Unmerited favor?

     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    That doesn't have anything to do with this topic.
     
  15. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Maybe in your church, if your congregation puts up with it.
     
  16. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    This has everything to do with the topic and the questions are quite relevent. I cannot be are debating such a Neanderthal concept.
     
  17. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Unfortunately, in today's environment you have to be especially careful about who is around the children. I think it better to have certain trusted members around the children at all times.

    Our church is very careful, we have a policy where no adult is ever alone with any child. If a child needs a ride home from church, there must be another adult present.
     
    #57 Winman, Sep 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2012
  18. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    That's like saying "Ideas aren't stupid, people are."

    Which is like saying sewage isn't dirty the bowels of people are.

    Sewage is dirty because it comes from the bowels of people which are dirty.

    Feelings that are stupid are stupid because they come from the hearts of people that are stupid.


    This is actually not my point.

    I think the policy is not good. I don't agree with it. I agree with the church's right to do it, but I don't like the policy.

    But a bigger issue is the under current of the OP. This "feeling called" mess is super-spiritual gobbly gook. It is not in the Bible. And it serves as an excuse for people to do whatever they want and blame the Holy Spirit.

    It relieves people of their duties to God.

    And worst of all it replaces Scriptural wisdom as the means whereby Christians make decisions.
     
  19. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    Everytime I have been asked to do something, it has been done, sometimes for years to this day. I did not stop and analyze if I had been called. I will give you one point, whenever I hear the phrase "I will pray about it," that is a code word for no.

    The point is, it is everyone's right to say no. I chose not to say no. That does not mean my pattern is everyone else's. It also does not mean as a church I would not allow them to use a nursery.
     
  20. Luke2427

    Luke2427 Active Member

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    I appreciate that. It is a subject of great importance and requires frankness.

    You said:

    I, most of my life have been anywhere from full out to half pentecostal. The first decade of my life I was raised in a pentecostal type church.

    When I became a Free Will Baptist I carried a lot of that over with me and ran in very emotional Free Will Baptist circles.

    And I believed like you apparently believe. That God speaks to me with words outside of Scripture and Providence.

    I would have some "feeling" and call that God. Should I turn left at the stop sign of right. I'd pray. I'd get a feeling. I'd turn. If it turned out to be the right way then I could say, "God spoke to me and said to turn that way." If I turned the wrong way then I would say, "I was not in touch with God like I ought to have been."

    Here's the frank part. That's dumb. It was something that I picked up from churches and people with whom I was raised. It was not from the Bible.

    The Bible teaches the opposite of this super-spiritual gobbly gook. It teaches that you make decisions by Scriptural wisdom.

    A whole book of the Bible is dedicated to teaching us how to make decisions- WISDOM. Not sensations- not feelings.

    God does speak to us- but not by washing over us with some feelings. he speaks to us BY HIS WORD and through Providence.

    Hebrews reminds us of this.

    1:1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son...

    We don't need this other stuff. this other stuff is extra-biblical.


    It exists for several reasons in my opinion.

    1. To make the person who has these feelings and experiences feel like what he's got is real. This is not the way you should be convinced that your religion is real.

    2. To make the person feel close to God. "God speaks to me and I speak to him". But he speaks through his Word. The idea that you are having a conversation with God going down the road where he is saying stuff that he does not say in his word is really just you having a conversation with yourself.

    3. To excuse one's actions. I didn't do this thing that appears to be my Christians duty because I prayed about it and I did not "feel led." That's evil in my opinion. The "feeling led" business is just you feeling like doing something you want to do anyway. And once again, it is not taught in the Bible.
     
    #60 Luke2427, Sep 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 2, 2012
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