Forcibly Removing All the Tulips at SWBTS

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by gb93433, Feb 21, 2009.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433
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    Anyone know anything about the following article?


    Tuesday, February 03, 2009


    Dr. Paige Patterson met with professors in the theology school at SWBTS and implied the seminary would be letting go the Calvinist professors from the seminary, claiming that the lack of funds and the need to reduce faculty as the rationale for the impending releases. Odd, however, was the seemingly chosen method of reduction. It was not years of service, nor even the performance of the professors, but rather, administration sought to ascertain just who on the faculty were avowed "tulip" men, and those are the ones being let go. Some of the professors present at the meeting included men who specifically informed administration of their beliefs at the time of their hiring, and they were told at the time their beliefs were not a problem.

    But it seems Calvinism is a problem to the powers that be at SWBTS. At least one professor from the philosophy department, himself on the brink of release, was present. The professors faced a grilling as to their soteriological belief system. They were asked to declare how many points of Calvinism to which they ascribed, and an even more penetrating series of questions were posed to that unfortunate soul who had the temerity to say "four" or "five" points.

    Historically, dismissals at SWBTS have taken the backdoor approach of "You have a year to find a job," but the rough economic environment might speed that process up just a tad for these tulip men. Here's hoping they can make it through the spring.

    Of course, it is the perogative of the SWBTS President to release whomsoever he will, but the forced, imminent departure of Calvinists from SWBTS illustrates just how far we have come since ideologues, who can't handle dissent, have taken charge of the Southern Baptist Convention.

    Source: http://kerussocharis.blogspot.com/2009/02/forcibly-removing-all-tulips-at-swbts.html
     
  2. saturneptune

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    Since each Baptist church is autonomous, each church on its own could withdraw membership and funds. When the funds get low enough, maybe they will stop playing political games. That goes for both the SBC and SWBTS. The arrogance seems to be dripping from these clowns in leadership positions. It sounds like they need to be taken down a few notches as a reminder where they get their power and money.
     
  3. JustChristian

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    Dr. Mohler did the same thing to non-Calvinists at SBS some years ago. Both men are exercising power they should not have and removing freedom of theological interpretation from the Seminary.
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    Wade in usual fashion has spoke on things he knows nothing about:




    http://sbctoday.blogspot.com/search?q=wade+burleson


    And by the way Tim is reformed
     
    #4 Revmitchell, Feb 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2009
  5. Pastor Larry

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    Mohler's actions were actually quite different (if the OP is correct about Patterson's). Mohler removed theological liberals who have no place in discussions about the Bible. Mohler returned Southern to its doctrinal commitments.
     
  6. JustChristian

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    How many non-Calvinist professors are at Southern today?
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    Not even remotely correct. Completely fabricated. Much like JC is doing.
     
  8. Jim1999

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    Is Southwestern dispensationalist too?

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  9. preachinjesus

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    I've not kept up with my alma mater of late. The shift in regime has made it hard for us who are not hardcore conservatives.

    I'd need more info and actual names of professors let go. That would be a true measure of who is "in" and who is "out."

    oh, and so much for putting to death declining enrollment. Seems that Dr. Patterson hasn't been able to stem the tide of students willing to walk away or not attend SWBTS due to the robust theological education available at more student friendly institutions.
     
  10. Revmitchell

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    While I am not a Calvinist ( an ungodly term) to suggest that a lack of non-reformed professors proves an agenda to do away with any professor not reformed is fallacious at best. You need more sound and credible evidence before slandering.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

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    I don't know but that is irrelevant. If there aren't any, the school will be better off, but I have no connection with SBTS or the SBC either.

    However, the reasons for removal had to do with the founding principles of the school and the requirement that professors adhere to the Abstract of Principles.

    You can hear something about it here.
     
  12. Tom Butler

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    I'm pretty sure there are some non-Calvinists on the Southern faculty.
     
  13. The Archangel

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    Calvinism at SBTS

    JustChristian, et al.

    You wrote:

    I am a graduate of Southern Seminary (December 2007, Master of Divinity in Christian Ministry in the school of Theology). Your first statement is absolutely untrue. Now, I don't know what Dr. Patterson would do, might do, etc. But, I know for a fact that Mohler's reformation of Southern Seminary was not a Calvinist revolution.

    Mohler is a Calvinist and there are many Calvinists on the faculty. However, Calvinism has never been a litmus test for any professor to teach at Southern. In fact, in response to your second statement (your question), there are many non-Calvinists on the faculty today.

    Here is an excellent illustration of the theological climate at Southern: For many years, Dr. Danny Akin was the Dean of the School of Theology. Dr. Akin became a mentor-type to me (until he moved on to become President of Southeastern Seminary). Dr. Akin and Dr. Mohler are, literally, best friends and have been so for many years. Dr. Akin is not anywhere close to being a Calvinist. On one occasion, he told me he believed in 2 or 3 points of Calvinism--depending on the day. Yet, he held the second-hightest position at the seminary, and that under Mohler who hired him.

    So, your first statement is demonstrably wrong and ill-informed.

    Another challenge to the "Label" of Calvinist is a historical one. Historically, in baptist life, only 5-Point Calvinists were referred to as "Calvinist." 4-Point Calvinists were considered Arminians.

    Southern has its share of 5-Pointers and its share of 4-Pointers (and on down from there). So, using the historical definition of Calvinist, the Faculty, in my estimation, is about half Calvinist and half Arminian.

    The suggestion that being a Calvinist is a requirement to teach at Southern is quite silly.

    I hope this post will be seen as informative and not inflammatory.

    Many Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    They were actually considered Amyraldians.
     
  15. Jim1999

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    I submit that the majority of Baptists from the 1940's onward considered themselves as a calvinist of sorts. The name calvinist, however, was not a prominent title until much later.

    The huge difference between baptists and reformed churches was not the title calvinist, but in the order of the decrees and the meaning of "foreknowledge". Most baptists believed that God elected some to salvation based on His foreknowledge as opposed to His divine selection from all eternity.

    We never called outselves arminian. We left that to the pentecostalists, et al.

    I always believed that at Southern Seminary, it was a cleaning out of the few liberals who had made their way into the seminary. Liberals and neo-orthodox.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  16. OldRegular

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    Adherence to the Abstract of Principles, which was written by cofounder of Southern Seminary James P. Boyce and is definitely Calvinistic, is still required of professors at Southern Seminary.

    I have posted all or part of that Abstract on this Forum.

    Edited

    After reading Archangel's post the above may no longer be true but that was my understanding. Anyhow those who heard the discussion between Mohler and Patterson on the Doctrines of Grace would be surprised if the reported actions by Patterson were true. I believe Dr. Mohler to be an outsanding witness for Jesus Christ. I have seen him on TV. Where others waffled he stood firm.
     
    #16 OldRegular, Feb 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2009
  17. gb93433

    gb93433
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    Later on that same page he gave a response to the same accusation you make.

    You, my friend, deserve a response. Please hear my heart. Sometimes words over the internet do not convey a sense of compassion, and I feel a great deal of empathy for you.

    When I wrote that IMB trustees were out to get Rankin's job, and Paige Patterson was orchestrating his friends who were IMB trustees to push the tongues policy as a backdoor attempt to fire Rankin, IMB trustee leadership screamed bloody murder. They called me a liar, a slanderer, and sought to remove me from the board. Interestingly enough, the week after the IMB trustees passed the new "doctrinal" policies (November 2005), Dr. Patterson wrote Dr. Rankin an email that suggested Rankin step down since his own trustees had turned against him. I have, on tape, Dr. Tom Hatley telling me trustees were ready to make the motion that the office of the presidency of the IMB be vacated. Fortunately for Rankin (or "unfortunately" depending on your feelings toward him), I became the issue at the IMB and his job was saved. And that is not my opinion, that is what the former chairman of the board told me (and, yes, I have it on tape).

    When Patterson told all the female professors at SWBTS that their "jobs were safe," when he became President of SWBTS, everyone relaxed. That is, until Dr. Sheri Klouda was informed that she "needed to look elsewhere" for a job because she was a "woman in a position reserved for a man." Sheri Klouda lost her job - she was never offered another "permanent" position on the faculty at SWBTS. She would have accepted it had it been offered because of her husband's health and her daughter's education in the metroplex. I did not know about her situation until after she was gone. Again, I was called every name in the book. People questioned my integrity. Baptist Identity people said I was lying about Sheri Klouda.

    Ask Sheri Kouda what she thinks of Wade Burleson. Ask Sheri Klouda what her husband and daughter think of Wade Burleson. I think you may find that they believe the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth was told by Wade Burleson. And, Sheri may very well tell you that her daughter's faith in Southern Baptists was restored through the help they received through our church.

    Now, Greg, you are wondering whether what I write may or may not be true? I would suggest that if you felt confident that I was untruthful, you would have slept like a baby.

    If Calvinists at SWBTS are not released in order to reduce the number of faculty, then I would suggest that maybe you have me to thank for letting intentions be known. If, as has been indicated, people like you are released, don't say that I didn't warn you.

    Either way, rest assured that I do not write what I write in a vacuum. I've been around the block in terms of this blog, and everything I write is done intentionally, to wake people up to what is happening in the SBC.

    And, what is happening, is a purging of anyone who is not in agreement with a particular ecclesiological, soteriological, and eshcatological viewpoint.

    The day of dissent for Southern Baptists is over, unless more people like myself challenges leadership.
     
  18. Revmitchell

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    He is disgraced and discredited. He is a reproach that handles all thing un-biblically. The Klouda dismissal was as much misrepresented as this is. What he does is works to stir up trouble because he disagrees with other things. And he spends much time as you do focusing on one man. That is in and of itself problematic and shows an agenda. But you continue on. Dr. Patterson has dealt with your kind since the beginning of the resurgence. He can handle you, Burleson and the like.
     
    #18 Revmitchell, Feb 21, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 21, 2009
  19. JustChristian

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    I thought you argued that Dr. Mohler did not remove non-Calvinist professors at the Seminary. I was responding to that. If this post isn't relevant your post wasn't relevant.
     
  20. gb93433

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    The Bible tell us to focus on one man--Jesus. Imagine where we would be today if it were not for Martin Luther, and Keil and Delitzsch?
     

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