Featured Forever?

to God be Glory for the age of the ages-or in any age for that matter sounds perfectly fine to me--the Glory is God's in every age --no matter how many they are

 

English has a totally different meaning than Greek---totally different cultures-it is foolish to compare the two--That Fire was the same exact FIRE in both cases--its purpose was NOT to burn up mankind but burn the impurities and to purge them from mankind--NOT to burn man--Man will be saved SO AS BY FIRE--but his evil works and impurities shall be burned--and that is where the Torment comes in for the unbelievers--for it is still Judgment:godisgood:

 

I believe that Christ's atonement accomplished just what God intended it so to do :godisgood::godisgood:

 

now is that really literal smoke or is it symbolism ?

 

Friend it is quite painful while burning impurities out of something--esp for a man--is also torment to the man and Judgment---BUT the man himself shall suffer great loss--but the Man shall be saved so as by FIRE

 

you call me a heretic--because all you are trying to do is just as the scribes did to jesus--they hated the truth of God and went about to destroy it and the one who brought it :godisgood::godisgood::

 

I've argued with Bosley before and like most of us he has his faults though in this one instance Bosley hit the nail on the head. No where is the definition of "forever" defined as temporary. Generally Catholics stick their noses up in the air and say things like this because they are severely challenged. Are you Catholic?
MB

 

just shows your ignorance on the word in the greek--forever should have not been put in our bibles--aion means Age Lasting(short or long duration of time)

iv showed proof of when using that word describing temporal thingsand as the judgment of God against man that indeed it is Age lasting

Only does it mean eternal is when it is implied toward God.

 

A couple of points, the first being, if this were a board I was in charge of, everyone in this thread that used the word heretic towards another believer would be gone.

The second point is, in the discussion of the term "forever" everyone seems to be keeping it is the framework of time. In eternity there is no time. While the final outcome is the same, most are making forever sound like a clock ticks on and on. That is not the case. There is no clock.

Our minds cannot really wrap around the concept of eternity, and certainly not when one cannot seperate the element of time.

For the simple minds that cannot get past name calling, when one uses the word heretic towards another person in describing him or her, it means that are devoid of all aspects of a relationship with Jesus Christ. Someone who is in error or disagrees with you on one theological issue is not a heretic.

 

:applause:

 

So if someone who claims to be a Christian denies the deity of Christ, and I say they're a heretic, then I am "devoid of all aspects of a relationship with Jesus Christ"?

 

Oh I see that now. I hope I misread it. If so, my apologies to SN. :flower:

 

Matthew 25:46 Commentary - By Gary Amirault

Does Eternal Punishment have to be as long as Eternal life because the adjective “aionios” is used to describe both punishment and life?

(A short synopsis of this article: The following article proves that “everlasting punishment” in Matthew 25:46 is a MIStranslation in many of the current leading selling English Bible translations including the King James Version, New International Standard Version, New American Standard Version, New Revised Standard Version, the Amplified Bible, The Net Bible, New Century Version, New Living Translation, International Standard Version, English Standard Version as well as many others. There are several translations, however, some of which are listed at the end of this article, which do NOT make this mistake. This correction is crucial in regards to having a proper understanding of the nature and character of God and His role as judge. Just because “aionios” is used to describe life and punishment, does not mean they have to be of the same length and quality any more than a “small” house has to be the same size as a “small” ring because the same adjective is used to describe both. Often adjectives take on some of the value of the word they describe. Therefore, “kolasin aionion” (mistranslated “everlasting punishment”) does not have to be the same length as “zoen aionion” (mistranslated “eternal life”). Aionion should not have been translated “everlasting” because aion and its adjective are clearly time words that have beginnings and endings. And “punishment” for the Greek “kolasin” is too strong a word. Kolasin means “to prune a tree to make it more fruitful.” There is nothing fruitful about eternal damnation in burning flames. If Jesus wanted to imply vindictive punishment, the author of Matthew could have chosen the Greek word “timoria,” but he didn’t – he used a much softer word. Furthermore, Matthew 25:46 does not speak of individual salvation based upon faith in Christ, it speaks of separation of nations based upon how they treated Jesus. And lastly, the context seems to indicate the judgments would be upon the religious leadership of Israel and those who considered themselves righteous, not street sinners, low-life Jews and/or adherents to other religious systems, that is, the Gentiles.)

 

I want to point out one of the critical mistakes we, Christians, often make due to faulty or archaic Bible translations. The King James Bible has the disciples ask Jesus privately, "Tell us, when shall these things be and what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?" (Matthew 24:3; KJV) The word "world" in this passage is the Greek word "aion" which means "age" NOT the physical world. If Jesus meant "world" he would have used the word "cosmos." Because the King James Bible mistranslated this word "aion" several different WRONG ways, it has caused several different doctrinal problems. The Bible in its Greek form actually speaks of at least 5 "ages," NOT two worlds, the world destroyed by water and the world to be destroyed by fire. There are ages (plural) past (Col. 1:26 and Eph. 3:9), the present age in which the writers of the New Testament were living (Luke 20:34,35, Rom. 12:2, Eph. 1:21, Titus 2:12, etc.) and at least two future ages to come (Eph. 2:7). Matthew 24:3 in the King James version does NOT refer to the end of the physical world, it refers to the end of the Jewish "age" which ended at the destruction of the Temple and its priesthood in 70AD. The generation of Jews to which Jesus came was the last generation of Jews born under the Old Covenant which was about to pass away.

The form of "aion" in Matthew 25:46 is an adjective. An adjective is a form of a word indicating possession or pertaining to. For example, hourly pertains to "an hour." Clearly, when one studies Olam and aion, it makes much more sense that it is an indeterminate period of time rather than eternity. Mistranslation of "olam" as "forever" and "everlasting" in the Old Testament has given us contradictions in our modern Bibles. The Mosaic Covenant is described as "everlasting" while the book of Hebrews tells us it is has been abolished. Solomon's Temple was to be "everlasting" yet it is no more. So, too, the Levitical Priesthood which has been replaced by the Melchizedek Priesthood. If these occurrences of "olam" had been translated correctly, we would NOT have these glaring contradictions in our Bibles. So then, Aion is an indeterminate period of time which we do not know the end of until it occurs.

An adjective CANNOT have a greater meaning than the noun from which it is derived. Hourly, for example, cannot pertain to a week, or month, or year. The "ly" indicates it belongs to an "hour." So too with "aionIOS" The "ios" ending tells us that it pertains to "aion" that is, an indeterminate period of TIME.

This amount of time can vary greatly, but it still must remain within the parameters of time. G. Campbell Morgan, as well as other great Bible scholars have told us that the Bible does NOT speak of "eternity" as we use the term. And why should it? It's a history of God's dealings with man here on earth which is in the realm of time and space.

Jesus described "eternal life" thusly:

"And this is eternal (aionian) life (zoen), that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." (John 17:3)

Isn't it rather strange that MOST of the church believes one can "lose" their "eternal life" and yet they will fight with someone like myself tooth and nail that "aionian" means "eternal." So they fight insisting "aionios" means "eternal," and then turn right around and make this "eternal" life, a kind of life which can be lost! Talk about foolish religious contradictions! This is a major one if I ever saw one!

Another thing to note about adjectives is that they often take on some of their meaning from the noun they are describing. For example, one would NOT expect a "small" ring to be the same size as a "small" house even though the same adjective is used to describe the nouns “ring” and “house.” The adjective “small” gets some of its force from the noun to which it is connected. Why then should "aionian" punishment have to be of the same duration as "aionian" zoen (Divine life)? Aionian may take on a greater force because it is connected to "zoen" which is “God-life.” It is as incorrect to assume that “aionian punishment” must be as long as "aionian zoen" as it is to force a house to become the size as a ring simply because they are both described by the same adjective, “small.” The Bible plainly tells us that God's anger WILL come to an end. “Aionian” punishment is NOT eternal.

"For I will not contend forever, nor will I always be angry; for the spirit would fail before Me, and the souls which I have made." Isaiah 57:16

The word "zoen" in Matthew 25:46 has given the word "aionian" a greater value, so to speak. It is exegetically false to assume the same value must be applied to the word punishment (kolasin) simply because the adjective “aionian” are used with both phrases. As seen from above, certain scriptures makes it abundantly clear, God’s punishment WILL come to an end despite what many church leaders teach. To continuously punish someone infinitely for a crime committed in finite time is not only unjust, it's downright demonic. It totally violates all of our sense of justice. No wonder most people are unwilling to come to Jesus for judgment. They do not see Him nor His Father as righteous judges. The Roman Catholics are taught to go to Mary because Jesus and His Father are too harsh. Mary is used to soften the Father and Son us for us. This is the kind of false teaching which has crept into the church because of this gross misrepresentation of God as a judge Who will give over unbelievers and sinful Christians to unending torture.

In the Greek Septuagint (the Greek version of the Old Testament), in Hab. 3:6, we find “everlasting mountains” and “everlasting God” within the same verse. If we use the same logic and reasoning that traditionalists use in Matt. 25:46, God must not be able to live any longer than mountains on earth. We know that the mountains are NOT everlasting. It is a mistranslation of olam, the Hebrew counterpart of the Greek aion. Both adjectives describe things in time, space, and matter. God is Lord over creation, but He is beyond even that. True eternity is something higher than creation. That the Bible calls Yahweh the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, does NOT preclude the fact that He is also the God of Israel, the God of Judah, or the God of the whole earth. He is all these which fall into the realm of the “everlasting God,” that is, the “God of the ages.” But He is still more than all that.

Below is a list of Scriptures which clearly show that many of our leading selling English translations have mistranslated the Greek word “aion” and its Hebrew counterpart “olam.” Surely the Hebrews and Greeks had something entirely different in mind when using these words than how we understand the English words “eternal,” “everlasting,” “for ever and ever,” etc.:

Sodom's fiery judgment is "eternal" (Jude 7), that is--until--God "will restore the fortunes of Sodom" (Ez.16:53‑55);

Israel's "affliction is incurable" (Jer. 30:12), that is‑‑until‑‑the Lord "will restore health" and heal her wounds (Jer. 30:17);

The sin of Samaria "is incurable" (Mic. 1:9) that is‑‑until‑‑ Lord "will restore ... the fortunes of Samaria." (Ez. 16:53);

Ammon is to become a "wasteland forever" and "rise no more" (Zeph. 2:9, Jer. 25:27) that is‑until‑‑the Lord will "restore the fortunes of the Ammonites" (Jer. 49:6);

An Ammonite or Moabite is forbidden to enter the Lord's congregation "forever", that is‑‑until‑‑the tenth generation (Deut. 23:3):

Habakkuk tells us of mountains that were "everlasting", that is‑‑until‑‑they "were shattered" Hab. 3:6);

The fire for Israel's sin offering (of a ram without blemish) is never to be put out. It shall be ”perpetual" that is‑‑until‑‑Christ, the Lamb of God, dies for our sins. We now have a better covenant established on better promises (Lev. 6:12‑13, Heb. 8:6‑13);

God's waves of wrath roll over Jonah "forever," that is--until-‑the Lord delivers him from the large fish's belly on the third day (Jonah 2:6,10; 1: 17);

Egypt and Elam will "rise no more" (Jer. 25:27)‑‑until‑‑the Lord will "restore the